The Virtual Pub
Come Inside... => The Medical Centre => Topic started by: Grumpmeister on December 19, 2013, 10:36:38 PM
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Just heard about a friend I've known since I was a kid. He and his brother have a rare kidney condition (there are less than 10 people in the country currently diagnosed with it) and its pretty clear that his job interviews go well until he mentions that he could be off for weeks at a time as a result, then in each case there are 'more experienced/qualified' candidates instead. He desperately want's to work but can't find anyone to take him on. And now to add insult to injury Atos have now decided that as he 'is able to work' he no longer qualifies for disability benefit.
Have Atos taken into account that his condition is severe enough for him to have medical morphine in his fridge at home so that when he is screaming in agony his doctor can come around and administer a dose, have they bollocks!
Have Atos given him any support or referred him to anyone who can help with the position he is in, have they bollocks!
All they have done is to tick a box and put themselves one mark closer to hitting their fucking targets without giving a shit that he now doesn't have enough money to live on.
I am fucking incensed.
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Tell your mate to have a look at this site:
www.disabilityrightsuk.org (http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org)
A friend contacted them, they took over his case and won. Thumbs:
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Thanks, I'll pass that on. Thumbs:
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
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The free school meals is a classic case of treating the symptoms rather than root cause of idiot parents who have no idea how to bring up kids.
FWIW on the Atos issue the decisions on benefits are taken by DWP officials (in their process called Decision Makers) The Atos role is to gather the evidence for a decision to be made. As the lowest bidder for the role and with a massive number of disability cases to be reviewed in a stupid timescale they are less than incentivised to ask clarification questions that would help the claimant. Apparently a significant number of appeals are being won due to evidence not available to the original decision maker. With a huge number of appeals they are not exactly being held rapidly.
In short anyone with a disability should get help in making the original claim and advice before attending any Atos run assessment.
But what we have is exactly what the idiot electorate demanded: a rapid clampdown on disability benefits being used to manage the official unemployment rate, reduction in the number of civil servants and privatisation of services to the lowest bidder.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, always be careful what you ask for in life as maybe you will get exactly that.
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Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
I'm not so sure there BM, now I admit I could be being cynical here (yes it does happen at times) but something tells me that for those schools there will be service providers who they are 'recommended' to use regardless of whether or not they are the best for the school. There was an article in the news a while back about a company based in Nottingham that was providing school means for schools in Dorset. That has to be something close to a 500 mile a day round trip
You can't seriously tell me that there isn't a company in Dorset that could provide the same service which suggests to me that money has changed hands when it comes to these 'reccomendations'.
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Don't get me started ........I threw one of those wankers out of my house when my EX was seriously ill ........ cussing:
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Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
I'm not so sure there BM, now I admit I could be being cynical here (yes it does happen at times) but something tells me that for those schools there will be service providers who they are 'recommended' to use regardless of whether or not they are the best for the school. There was an article in the news a while back about a company based in Nottingham that was providing school means for schools in Dorset. That has to be something close to a 500 mile a day round trip
You can't seriously tell me that there isn't a company in Dorset that could provide the same service which suggests to me that money has changed hands when it comes to these 'reccomendations'.
Not as daft as it sounds once you get beyond the Daily Heil's emotional headline. Cook-chill-reheat local is widely used nowadays,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html)
The bigger worry would be having to search all that Nottingham prepared food for maggots
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Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
I'm not so sure there BM, now I admit I could be being cynical here (yes it does happen at times) but something tells me that for those schools there will be service providers who they are 'recommended' to use regardless of whether or not they are the best for the school. There was an article in the news a while back about a company based in Nottingham that was providing school means for schools in Dorset. That has to be something close to a 500 mile a day round trip
You can't seriously tell me that there isn't a company in Dorset that could provide the same service which suggests to me that money has changed hands when it comes to these 'reccomendations'.
Not as daft as it sounds once you get beyond the Daily Heil's emotional headline. Cook-chill-reheat local is widely used nowadays,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html)
The bigger worry would be having to search all that Nottingham prepared food for maggots
We do it for BM when LL is away........ noooo:
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Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
I'm not so sure there BM, now I admit I could be being cynical here (yes it does happen at times) but something tells me that for those schools there will be service providers who they are 'recommended' to use regardless of whether or not they are the best for the school. There was an article in the news a while back about a company based in Nottingham that was providing school means for schools in Dorset. That has to be something close to a 500 mile a day round trip
You can't seriously tell me that there isn't a company in Dorset that could provide the same service which suggests to me that money has changed hands when it comes to these 'reccomendations'.
Not as daft as it sounds once you get beyond the Daily Heil's emotional headline. Cook-chill-reheat local is widely used nowadays,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html)
The bigger worry would be having to search all that Nottingham prepared food for maggots
We do it for BM when LL is away........ noooo:
Cook-chill-bin... redface:
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Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
I'm not so sure there BM, now I admit I could be being cynical here (yes it does happen at times) but something tells me that for those schools there will be service providers who they are 'recommended' to use regardless of whether or not they are the best for the school. There was an article in the news a while back about a company based in Nottingham that was providing school means for schools in Dorset. That has to be something close to a 500 mile a day round trip
You can't seriously tell me that there isn't a company in Dorset that could provide the same service which suggests to me that money has changed hands when it comes to these 'reccomendations'.
Not as daft as it sounds once you get beyond the Daily Heil's emotional headline. Cook-chill-reheat local is widely used nowadays,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html)
The bigger worry would be having to search all that Nottingham prepared food for maggots
It's not so much the cook chill reheat idea as the fact that they 'had' to contract to a company in Nottingham, I honestly cannot see that there wasn't a closer option. noooo:
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Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
I'm not so sure there BM, now I admit I could be being cynical here (yes it does happen at times) but something tells me that for those schools there will be service providers who they are 'recommended' to use regardless of whether or not they are the best for the school. There was an article in the news a while back about a company based in Nottingham that was providing school means for schools in Dorset. That has to be something close to a 500 mile a day round trip
You can't seriously tell me that there isn't a company in Dorset that could provide the same service which suggests to me that money has changed hands when it comes to these 'reccomendations'.
Not as daft as it sounds once you get beyond the Daily Heil's emotional headline. Cook-chill-reheat local is widely used nowadays,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511830/Catering-company-Nottingham-makes-ludicrous-500-MILE-round-trip-day-deliver-dinners-schools-Dorset.html)
The bigger worry would be having to search all that Nottingham prepared food for maggots
It's not so much the cook chill reheat idea as the fact that they 'had' to contract to a company in Nottingham, I honestly cannot see that there wasn't a closer option. noooo:
Maybe they have lower standards in Nottingham
of pay that is (http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/personal-finance/nottingham-has-lowest-disposable-income-in-britain-806779)
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The company, Cygnet Catering, supplies 118 schools in Dorset with 5,140 meals a day at a cost of up to £2.02 per lunch, which it says includes fuel and transportation costs.
If the £2.02 includes fuel and transportation costs I can only assume that the meals are made using only the freshest cardboard and sawdust. We're doomed I tell you all doomed.
Sorry Grumpmeister your thread seems to have been hi-jacked.
I am not surprised by your fury on your friends behalf. The anxiety and stress that are caused by these interviews is horrendous and that in turn compounds other health issues. The disabled along with the poor are being demonised by M.Ps these people are almost voiceless and often vulnerable. What really gets to me and I mean really, really gets to me is that the M.Ps doing the demonising are a bunch of lying thieving criminals. Cockwombles the lot of them. evil: cussing:
Baldy I am going to post your link elsewhere if you don't mind.
Oh how I regret clicking on this thread, despite being snuggled in a warm bed the chance of sleep receded further with each post read. And breath.....
Just clicked on the link are my eyes deceiving me or is that the Minack Theatre Grumpy? It's over 25 years since I was there. sad32:
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The company, Cygnet Catering, supplies 118 schools in Dorset with 5,140 meals a day at a cost of up to £2.02 per lunch, which it says includes fuel and transportation costs.
If the £2.02 includes fuel and transportation costs I can only assume that the meals are made using only the freshest cardboard and sawdust. We're doomed I tell you all doomed.
Sorry Grumpmeister your thread seems to have been hi-jacked.
I am not surprised by your fury on your friends behalf. The anxiety and stress that are caused by these interviews is horrendous and that in turn compounds other health issues. The disabled along with the poor are being demonised by M.Ps these people are almost voiceless and often vulnerable. What really gets to me and I mean really, really gets to me is that the M.Ps doing the demonising are a bunch of lying thieving criminals. Cockwombles the lot of them. evil: cussing:
Baldy I am going to post your link elsewhere if you don't mind.
Oh how I regret clicking on this thread, despite being snuggled in a warm bed the chance of sleep receded further with each post read. And breath.....
Just clicked on the link are my eyes deceiving me or is that the Minack Theatre Grumpy? It's over 25 years since I was there. sad32:
No probs Miss C, post it where you like. Thumbs:
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote. Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future. At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote. Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future. At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.
The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... noooo:
The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote. Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future. At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.
The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... noooo:
The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...
True but apparently the only thing that changes anything is the weather. Raining or not raining is what decides which Gubberment we get. ::)
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote. Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future. At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.
The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... noooo:
The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...
True but apparently the only thing that changes anything is the weather. Raining or not raining is what decides which Gubberment we get. ::)
Australia has compulsory voting and IMHO this has lead to some poor and weak governments and created poor and weak 'career' politicians. This combined with PR means that a situation can and has occurred where one Independent or a Green can hold the balance of power in the lower house and / Senate. The general public, generally get what it deserves, and if half of them are on benefits or welfare of some form then they will vote for whoever maintains the status quo.
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote. Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future. At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.
The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... noooo:
The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...
True but apparently the only thing that changes anything is the weather. Raining or not raining is what decides which Gubberment we get. ::)
Australia has compulsory voting and IMHO this has lead to some poor and weak governments and created poor and weak 'career' politicians. This combined with PR means that a situation can and has occurred where one Independent or a Green can hold the balance of power in the lower house and / Senate. The general public, generally get what it deserves, and if half of them are on benefits or welfare of some form then they will vote for whoever maintains the status quo.
Indeed...
the current coalition in the UK shows us how dangerous it is for a (unelectable) minority party to hold the balance of power...
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I think that the problem with voter apathy is twofold, firstly that they look at the different parties, can't see a difference between the main three and don't see any of the smaller ones having a hope in hell of getting enough votes to make a change leading people to believe that voting will be a waste of time. In that respect if ballot papers had a none of the above option I suspect we'd see a large increase in votes cast. Secondly is the issue of candidate quality, with very few exceptions MP's are seen as being so far removed from the real world that they couldn't find it with a map and a team of sherpas.
One major change that needs to be made, something that I have believed for a long time, is that other than the PM and Deputy PM cabinet members should not be serving MP's. Look at the positions awarded over the last few governments and I doubt that you could count on one hand the number that would have been given to any of them if they had been applying for a similar role in a business. No relevant experience, no relevant qualifications, just a history of kissing the arse of whoever is sat in No 10. Is it too much to ask to have a chancellor who has worked in the financial sector and understands national and global economics, a defence minister who has served in the armed forces (and ideally seen active service), people who understand the truly understand the complexities of their portfolios and has actual real world and real life experience and not spent a few years working in some bullshit PR role or something similar before joining the 'political class'.
And even if you disagree with the experience factor, being an MP is a full time job (or at least should be if it is being done properly) as is being a cabinet member. Trying to do 2 full time jobs at once just means that the quality of work done in both cases suffers so why the hell should we accept second rate service just so that they can feel self important about having extra power.
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Sorry to hear about your mate....
I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...
But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...
Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...
I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...
Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... noooo:
The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote. Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future. At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.
The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... noooo:
The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...
But given a referendum to change that and what did the electorate do? Vote to keep the current idiocy.
Compulsory voting? What Miss A said - seconded. No no no no NO! to compulsory voting, it's fundamentally dishonest.
I'll court further BM bile by saying the coalition has on the whole done well compared to the alternatives. 5 years more of the Gorgon or 5 years of a narrow Tory faction blackmailing the government (as happened with Major) and we really would be in a pickle. For all their many faults the Libs forced on Osborne that massive taking of low paid out of tax as part of the deal.
Meister's idea has merit imho but I suspect voters would hate it. And there we get back to the root issue, most people are inherently shallow and they vote shallow so by and large we get the governments they deserve, arguably better. For all their faults at least Thatcher and Blair were leaders. What would encourage a real honest leader into politics now?
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I suppose the €64B question is how to change it…?
First of all I would slash the size of the gubberment and civil service – it tries to micro-manage every aspect of our lives and the monster grows bigger every year. Cut the size and scope of gubberment and many of the issues go away.
Secondly I would ban lobbying. Lobbying should come from the people that vote for MPs, not large corporations, single issue campaign groups and (fake) charities.
Thirdly I would make the manifesto mandatory. If you pledge to do something when shopping for votes it should be done in the term of the parliament. Likewise, things that are not in your manifesto (like marriage for the gayers and the smoking ban) would not be allowed without additional approval from the people.
Fourthly I agree with grumpmeister but would go further. Nobody should be an MP that has no real-world experience. Career MPs rely on the Civil Service, lobby groups and party donors to tell them what the ‘real world’ is like and what they should do.
The coalition has done well – for themselves. They have made big government even bigger, kept the ridiculous green taxes, lied about the referendum and have broken just about every promise they made in opposition. There has been no bonfire of the quangos and the economy has ‘grown’ on the back of printing money and a mountain of debt.
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. . lied about the referendum . . .
Which referendum?
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. . lied about the referendum . . .
Which referendum?
The EU one...
...the one promised for 2017...
...the one that won't happen...
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Fourthly I agree with grumpmeister but would go further. Nobody should be an MP that has no real-world experience. Career MPs rely on the Civil Service, lobby groups and party donors to tell them what the ‘real world’ is like and what they should do.
I meant to add that in as well but didn't realise I'd missed it out. Years ago when I was in college our newly elected MP was a famous former athlete who had been 'recommended' by central office. I'd had to meet him for some reason (I think some of us had won an award or something at the college. whatever it was it was a minor event that was considered a good photo opportunity for him). I don't think he was overly impressed with me when I asked how being able to run really fast qualified him to become a member of parliament though.
It wouldn't be the first time that a party has lied about an EU referendum, all three main parties have made that promise at one point or another. I think that unfortunately the problem is that whether or not they personally believe that EU membership is a good thing or not is immaterial, there is too much self interest with payments and potential job roles once their political career in the UK is over that they wouldn't want to risk it.
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Oh dear Steve, just when I was beginning to have a warm feeling about you and me agreeing on something, you had to go and be deliberately provocative! Now I can't even do the ironing without feeling as though I want to give you a good tongue lashing - if only we were in a real boozer!
Where to start though... rubschin: Blair being a good leader? rubschin: don't know how you came up with that? The coalition doing well rubschin: rubschin: They are as weak as gnat's pi**, constantly having to kow-tow to Clegg, haven't even started to cut the deficit yet, only the rate at which at which it is growing - Vince Cable should stick to doing the cha cha and Danny Alexander should join him. The Libdems will probably pimp themselves out again after the next election and join a nice LibLab pact - there's a thought. What's next? rubschin: rubschin: rubschin: The idea that taking people out of tax is a good idea? - everyone should pay something, even a small amount, people need to feel that they are enfranchised and that they have a stake in society as opposed to taking from it, rubschin: rubschin: rubschin: rubschin: possibly thinking that PR might be a good system? ::)
Finally, the word shallow is a bit derogatory, we just all tend to vote according to how it affects our pocket - that's just human nature
I can only deduce from this Watson that you must be a Libdem - they don't call me Miss A of the Yard for nothing
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I'm a floating voter Miss A. My recall is in General Elections I have voted
Labour: Three times
Libs: Once
Conservatives: Four times
Spoilt vote: Twice
I didn't say Blair was a good leader, I never ever voted for him. I didn't say Thatcher was a good leader either but they both could lead real change. I want good leaders as I want change and we're not going to get too many of them all the time lies about politicians circulate round and round the interweb without challenge.
So I will challenge and if pointing out the sometimes awkward truth makes me unpopular so be it
Oh I had to ask BM "which referendum" because Cameron made several promises on all sorts of referendums from local to devolution to Europe. AFAIK not one promise he or others made has ever been broken but I have frequently seen their promises misrepresented.
As for saying Cameron is lying as a referendum won't occur in 2017 then that's just guesswork. The bill to ensure we have one is due in the Lords soon having been passed by the Commons with Cameron voting in support.
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Apologies Steve, I got carried away with the starch - I don't think that challenging makes you unpopular - I think it's good to make us all think a bit occasionally.
Fair point about the referendum, I also agree with you about the faith school thing, all free schooling here is in the Greek language and Greek-Orthodox based, all are welcome, but if you don't like it then you have to pay - and the alternative is often inferior.
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Firstly Cameron is unlikely to get back in at the 2015 elections....
Secondly, my understanding is that the rules change in 2014 - this year - making it impossible to leave the EU without the consent of every other member... which is never likely to happen...
Cameron is obviously aware of this...
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Cheers for that Miss A. You should see the grief I get on serious political forums for pointing out the awkward
Firstly Cameron is unlikely to get back in at the 2015 elections....
Secondly, my understanding is that the rules change in 2014 - this year - making it impossible to leave the EU without the consent of every other member... which is never likely to happen...
Cameron is obviously aware of this...
I think you're referring to the opt outs from various police and crime measures which we have to decide on by the end of May
I beleive Cameron is very aware, it's been in most of the papers. Here's the official briefing
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-home-affairs-sub-committee-f-/inquiries/parliament-2010/protocol-36/ (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-home-affairs-sub-committee-f-/inquiries/parliament-2010/protocol-36/)
Protocol 36 of the Treaty of Lisbon allows the Government to decide, by 31 May 2014, whether the UK should continue to be bound by approximately 130 police and criminal justice (PCJ) measures, which would all become subject to the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union and the European Commission’s enforcement powers, or if it should exercise its right to opt-out of them all. Either scenario would then take effect from 1 December 2014. The Government has undertaken to organise a debate and a vote in each House before a decision is made.
The Government’s announcement by the Home Secretary on 9 July 2013 provided a list of the 35 measures that the Government would seek to rejoin should the opt-out be exercised. The announcement and the absence of this list of measures during the Committee’s original inquiry has prompted the decision to reopen the inquiry to further scrutinise these developments.
The right to leave the EU altogether was reintroduced in the Lisbon treaty and has no time limit. The devil in the detail is the terms of exit are not defined, there is no requirement for the remaining EU to continue to trade at all with any exiting country.
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Cheers for that Miss A. You should see the grief I get on serious political forums for pointing out the awkward
Firstly Cameron is unlikely to get back in at the 2015 elections....
Secondly, my understanding is that the rules change in 2014 - this year - making it impossible to leave the EU without the consent of every other member... which is never likely to happen...
Cameron is obviously aware of this...
I think you're referring to the opt outs from various police and crime measures which we have to decide on by the end of May
I beleive Cameron is very aware, it's been in most of the papers. Here's the official briefing
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-home-affairs-sub-committee-f-/inquiries/parliament-2010/protocol-36/ (http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-home-affairs-sub-committee-f-/inquiries/parliament-2010/protocol-36/)
Protocol 36 of the Treaty of Lisbon allows the Government to decide, by 31 May 2014, whether the UK should continue to be bound by approximately 130 police and criminal justice (PCJ) measures, which would all become subject to the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union and the European Commission’s enforcement powers, or if it should exercise its right to opt-out of them all. Either scenario would then take effect from 1 December 2014. The Government has undertaken to organise a debate and a vote in each House before a decision is made.
The Government’s announcement by the Home Secretary on 9 July 2013 provided a list of the 35 measures that the Government would seek to rejoin should the opt-out be exercised. The announcement and the absence of this list of measures during the Committee’s original inquiry has prompted the decision to reopen the inquiry to further scrutinise these developments.
The right to leave the EU altogether was reintroduced in the Lisbon treaty and has no time limit. The devil in the detail is the terms of exit are not defined, there is no requirement for the remaining EU to continue to trade at all with any exiting country.
As you say, Article 50 gives the theoretical right to leave but is ill-defined....
I thought there was another lock-out that comes into force this year tho - I'll have to look it up...
But tell me, do you think that (in the unlikely event) if Cameron gets re-elected in 2015 he will truly offer a free and fair referendum on the Brexit in 2017?
Given that he has already said that he will campaign for us to stay in, the other two party leaders feel the same way and the EU would pour billions into the 'stay' campaign...?
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The Conservatives' EU referendum bill could fail in Parliament. (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100252644/the-conservatives-eu-referendum-bill-could-fail-in-parliament-what-will-voters-think-of-that/)
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The Conservatives' EU referendum bill could fail in Parliament. (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100252644/the-conservatives-eu-referendum-bill-could-fail-in-parliament-what-will-voters-think-of-that/)
It's not THE Conservatives' Bill, it's A Conservative's private members bill which is why it may fail, and if it does the chances of Cameron winning in 2015 increase big time as he can paint labour and the Libs into a corner. Cameron is prevented from making it a government bill with government time by the terms of the coalition agreement. He has given it his full support.
So to your question "do you think that (in the unlikely event) if Cameron gets re-elected in 2015 he will truly offer a free and fair referendum on the Brexit in 2017?" then yes I believe he will make it a manifesto and if he wins (unlikely but possible) he would make it a Queen's speech commitment asap. I trust his integrity but not always his judgment.
You suggest he wouldn't because he wants us to stay in the EU. The evidence is he does not as the EU stands so where he campaigns will come down to how much change he can get. We just don't know, he likely does not know either. What would you expect him to do if come the day he believes it is best for the UK to stay in?