Author Topic: Iceland could take local councils' money  (Read 3904 times)

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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2008, 10:31:18 AM »
That only us emmits know or that we won't fall off when we reach the horizon? I'm not sure if the Welsh are further ahead than the Cornish in that respect  whistle:

Coming from Hampshire I was pretty certain that the civilised world ended at Bournemouth to the West, Fareham to the East and Watford to the North. Going South one simply got wet feet.
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2008, 05:26:46 PM »
It now seems that the UK Government had been warned that the Icelandic Banks were heading for the rocks over two months ago and did nothing about it other than burble that everything would be alright.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7663596.stm

Broon meanwhile is angry with Iceland ~ presumably for letting him put himself in the firing line.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 05:28:47 PM by Snoopy »
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Offline The Moan Ranger

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2008, 08:38:11 PM »
I sent and received these today...

Subject:   RE: Your enquiry
From:   "Higgins Sue" <Sue.Higgins@sutton.gov.uk>
Date:   Fri, October 10, 2008 5:50 pm
To:   TMR
Cc:   "Martin Paul" <paul.martin@sutton.gov.uk>
Priority:   Normal
Options:   View full header |  View printable version | Add to addressbook | Block sender | Add sender to allow list 
 
 


Dear Mr TMR, (with wrong spelling... ::))
I'm the Council's Director with responsibility for Finance and will reply to your
questions. I understand your dissatification with my performance and that of the
Council more generally and can assure you that we are responding to the emerging and
unprescendented world economic situation with care and vigour. That said, our
Treasury Mangement Policy (TMP) sets the terms and limits for our investments and we
only invest in institutions with an A rating or higher. These investments were made
within those boundaries. Councils have a duty to be careful with public money but
also to provide value for money for its citizens, by only investing with A, AA or
AAA rated institutions we believe we balanced risk with return appropriately.

To answer your questions more specifically, we have two investments with Heritable
Bank PLC totalling £5.5m. One sum was deposited in August and the second in
September. Heritable are a UK bank and their assets are currently frozen, as you no
doubt know, with Ernst and Young appointed as administrators. We use Sector as our
Treasury advisers and Heritable were green risk / A grade rated when we made both
deposits with them. I am clear that the deposits were made within the terms and
limits set by our Treasury Management policy and were made taking the advice of
Sector. We spread our investments to minimise risk and because Heritable were A
graded we made only relatively small and short term deposits with them, the August
deposit being for 3 months and the September one for a week. We are in contact with
the bank's administrators as you would expect.

I have undertaken a review of the circumstances around these two deposits and am
satisfied that my officers acted properly and in accordance with the parameters set
by our TMP and on Sector's advice but will be undertaking a fuller review and
reporting on this to the Council's Audit Committee at its next meeting in December.
The Council also issued a press statement as soon as we became aware of the problem
on Wednesday this week. I say both of these things to reassure you that I do take
the matter of my accountability seriously and that the Council has been and is open
to this matter being subject to public scrutiny.

Please do not hesitate to come back to me if you need anything further.

Yours sincerely,

Sue
Sue Higgins, Strategic Director - Resources
London Borough of Sutton
Civic Offices, St Nicholas Way, Sutton, Surrey SM1 1EA

Tel: +44 (020 8770 5511), Fax: +44 (020 8770 5510), web site: www.sutton.gov.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Paul <Paul.Martin@sutton.gov.uk>
Sent: 10 October 2008 13:25
To: TMR
Cc: Higgins Sue
Subject: Your enquiry

Dear Mr TMR
Many thanks for your message. We will get a full response to your questions as
quickly as we can.

Regards - Paul Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: TMR
Sent: 10 October 2008 12:07
To: Martin Paul
Subject:

Dear Mr Martin,


I noticed that public money, harvested from the good citizens of Sutton by way of
Council Tax has gone missing under your watch. £5.5 Million is the sum being
reported by the press.


Can you explain to me why this investment was allowed to remain in Iceland when
alarm bells have been ringing since August 2007, about the instability of the
Icelandic Banks, and again as recently as May 2008 when these banks were being down
graded?


There is little point all the local authorities appealing to central Government for
a bailout from us the taxpayer, to replace our money as Ratepayers that your
Authority has lost in a reckless investment.


I would like a full and dated explanation from yourself and the Chief Financial
Officer within the next seven days as to the following- -


When was this investment made?


Why was it made, on whose recommedation and what independent advice was sought?


What checks were made on the credit worthiness of Landsbanki at the time?


What monitoring was made on this investment considering the warnings that were being
put out in August 2007, and the later downgrading to BBB+?


When was the Authority first aware that Landsbanki were in financial trouble and
what steps did you take to protect the ratepayers funds?


I do not wish to hear that you are making appeals to Whitehall, the officers and
Councillors are legally responsible for this money, not Whitehall. This is an
appalling state of affairs considering that the Local Authority has the right to
extract this money from our pockets with the sanction of penal action if we do not
pay and to find this level of incompetence within your Finance department.


If I do not receive a detailed explanation with seven days, who is responsible and
what disciplinary steps are going to be taken, as there most certainly would be in a
private enterprise, I will apply for this information with an application under the
Freedom of Information Act and ensure that this goes to press.


For far too long have we had to put up with this lack of accountability at all tiers
of Government. I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement and your detailed
reply.
I will also be registering an official complaint with the Standards Board

Yours sincerely,

H/T to OH.

 
 
 
 

Offline The Moan Ranger

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2008, 09:42:05 PM »

Offline The Moan Ranger

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2008, 09:52:18 PM »
Also, regarding Sutton Council...

In other news regarding this "Council", they have also decided that Beddington Park is now to bar smoking.

So now you can't smoke in a park. An open park. A fvcking huge park.

But you still will, however, ingest god knows what shite from the constant traffic on the A232 next to it.

This ban is also unenforceable under law. Any poor sod that gets the job of trying to enforce it is likely to meet with much abuse - both physical and verbal - and will end up as fish food in the Wandle.


Offline Darwins Selection

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 11:46:17 PM »
Another part of this which I should like explained, is why they have such large sums salted away in the first place.

I have heard the argument that it is cash for 'contingencies' like flood emergencies.

That makes sense, except that most deposits are on fixed term of many months.  rubschin:
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2008, 04:43:57 AM »
(1) In terms of their revenues these are comparatively small sums of money to hold in reserve.

(2) When did you ever hear of a council that paid out promptly?

(3) With a contingency fund they would "Borrow" (using an overdraft facility) against provable assets as opposed to borrowing against anticipated future tax revenues and expect to pay a lower rate of interest ~ at least in "normal" times they could.

(3) They are no better at sums than I am ~ they just have more noughts on the end.
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Offline Darwins Selection

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2008, 09:11:07 PM »
 worthy:

That's why I employ an accountant.  redface:
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2008, 04:57:21 PM »
I don't need an accountant to tell me I am worth the square root of f*ck all  surrender:
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Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Iceland could take local councils' money
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2008, 04:21:02 PM »
You dont need to be an accountant to see a flaw in this blinding plan. We are going to lend one of the Icelandic banks money so that they can pay us the money that they owe us...  rubschin:

Quote
A £100m loan is being given by the Bank of England to the UK arm of the collapsed Icelandic bank Landsbanki to help repay the bank's UK creditors.

Savers with Icesave, the bank's internet operation, and any of its other UK depositors will benefit.

"This loan will help ensure an orderly wind-down of Landsbanki which will maximise the return to UK creditors," said a Bank of England spokesman.

Icesave closed last week, leaving its 300,000 UK savers without their cash.

The loan was announced in the Commons by Chancellor Alistair Darling on Monday afternoon.

Precisely how money will be channelled to those who need it is yet to be made clear, and the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) is still drawing up a plan on how savers will be compensated for their lost savings.

Earlier in the day, the chancellor said that a plan to assist business customers and savers with Landsbanki was close to being finalised.

He threatened to raise money from the bank's assets in the UK which the government has seized to help those whose accounts have been frozen for a week.

The UK Treasury said all UK savers' money was protected, even though the £100m loan would not cover the entire amount needed to compensate savers.

The issue caused a diplomatic row between the two countries' governments.

Compensation

Icesave customers in the UK are set to receive compensation for their lost savings, but part of this should come from the Icelandic authorities because the bank is not registered in the UK.

The first 20,000 euros of compensation should be provided by the Icelandic compensation scheme, with the rest coming from the UK's Financial Services Compensation Scheme.

But there has been some debate about how the Icelandic scheme will come up with this money, and how much business customers, charities or local authorities that saved with Landsbanki will get.

"Our authorities have set up an arrangement, agreed in principle, for an accelerated payout to depositors," Mr Darling told the Commons.

"We are also working with the Icelandic authorities to facilitate claims by UK charities and local authorities on their deposits held at these Icelandic banks."

The announcement came after the chancellor met the Icelandic finance minister in Washington on Sunday afternoon and pressed him for a swift resolution of the situation.

Initially, any rescue in Iceland was expected to concentrate on domestic customers first, prompting a strong reaction from the UK government, which seized the Landsbanki assets in the UK.
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