Clarkson on the one show ''shock horror''

[Barman]

Lets take the absolutely no doubt about it, role model and top proffesional footballer Gary Speed.

Did he even think for one passing nano second just how he was going to wreck and possibly mentally scar the rest of the lives of his two teenage boys and wife who found him following his lurching off a chair or whatever with a noose around his neck.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is so so so bad that it deserves putting loved ones through that, NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING.

I don't think any of us can put ourselves in the mindset of somebody that feels the only option open to them is to end their own life.... 

However, thousands are in just that position every year.

Unfortunately, society views suicide so negatively that it is quite difficult to end your own life humanely without distress to others.

I believe that suicide should be a 'normal' option open to people that want to end their lives - for whatever reason. Certainly for people with terminal illness who we decide to keep alive (often in great pain) due to the 'sanctity of life'. Christ, we treat our dogs and cats with more humanity... 

I think if suicide was 'normalised' people would find it easier to discuss their options with family before taking such a painful decision. Also, they'd be able to end their lives humanely and without pain or (undue) distress (or inconvenience) to others...

I'd certainly like the option of ending mine if the point ever comes that I believe it not to be worth living.

[GROWLER]

Now what you say is a completely different subject.
Call it suicide, but it's also known as euthinasia, and on that point I entirely agree with you.

[Barman]

Now what you say is a completely different subject.
Call it suicide, but it's also known as euthinasia, and on that point I entirely agree with you.

So now extend it from people with a physical illness to people that have a mental illness or believe (for whatever reason) that life is no longer worth living - even if they are in perfect physical health...

[Nick]

Extend it? It's not even legal for people with terminal diseases!

[Barman]

Extend it? It's not even legal for people with terminal diseases!

Exactly...

But I was referring to Growler's thinking on the subject....

he thinks suicide is okay if you have a terminal illness but not a mental illness - or are just fed up with life...

[GROWLER]

Well I can't look into or even understand what goes on in the mind of someone with obvious mental problems, but that wasn't my point. I was merely stating that what JC says is correct IMO.
 
It's the poor sods that are left behind to pick up the pieces, quite literally in some cases, or have to witness the extreme trauma ( I imagine) of witnessing such finality.
Are these people given any thought whatsoever ? I think not, so therefore it is selfishness in the extreme.

There are many ways of topping yourself if you really really cannot seek help or really really cannot control yourself.
Hanging or lobbing yourself in front of a train is NOT one of them imo.

[Nick]

I don't think any of us can put ourselves in the mindset of somebody that feels the only option open to them is to end their own life.... 

I can

Oh, and TMR of course 

[Barman]

Well I can't look into or even understand what goes on in the mind of someone with obvious mental problems, but that wasn't my point. I was merely stating that what JC says is correct IMO.
 
It's the poor sods that are left behind to pick up the pieces, quite literally in some cases, or have to witness the extreme trauma ( I imagine) of witnessing such finality.
Are these people given any thought whatsoever ? I think not, so therefore it is selfishness in the extreme.

There are many ways of topping yourself if you really really cannot seek help or really really cannot control yourself.
Hanging or lobbing yourself in front of a train is NOT one of them imo.

But you contradict yourself there...

You say that you can't look into the mind of a suicide but then say they should obviously apply logical reason and thought to the process...

I'd argue that somebody so desperate to end their life is probably not thinking about the consequences...

[GROWLER]

Well I can't look into or even understand what goes on in the mind of someone with obvious mental problems, but that wasn't my point. I was merely stating that what JC says is correct IMO.
 
It's the poor sods that are left behind to pick up the pieces, quite literally in some cases, or have to witness the extreme trauma ( I imagine) of witnessing such finality.
Are these people given any thought whatsoever ? I think not, so therefore it is selfishness in the extreme.

There are many ways of topping yourself if you really really cannot seek help or really really cannot control yourself.
Hanging or lobbing yourself in front of a train is NOT one of them imo.

But you contradict yourself there...

You say that you can't look into the mind of a suicide but then say they should obviously apply logical reason and thought to the process...

I'd argue that somebody so desperate to end their life is probably not thinking about the consequences...

Correct, and that's all that I'm trying to state.

Like JC, I'm not belittling AT ALL the fact that someone is so mixed up that they feel they cannot go on. I'm merely stating sympathy for those that they leave behind to deal with the trauma and mess, and possible/probable future mental issues for themselves as a consequence.

[Barman]

Well I can't look into or even understand what goes on in the mind of someone with obvious mental problems, but that wasn't my point. I was merely stating that what JC says is correct IMO.
 
It's the poor sods that are left behind to pick up the pieces, quite literally in some cases, or have to witness the extreme trauma ( I imagine) of witnessing such finality.
Are these people given any thought whatsoever ? I think not, so therefore it is selfishness in the extreme.

There are many ways of topping yourself if you really really cannot seek help or really really cannot control yourself.
Hanging or lobbing yourself in front of a train is NOT one of them imo.

But you contradict yourself there...

You say that you can't look into the mind of a suicide but then say they should obviously apply logical reason and thought to the process...

I'd argue that somebody so desperate to end their life is probably not thinking about the consequences...

Correct, and that's all that I'm trying to state.

Like JC, I'm not belitting AT ALL the fact that someone is so mixed up that they feel they cannot go on. I'm merely stating sympathy for those that they leave behind to deal with the trauma and mess, and possible/probable future mental issues for themselves as a consequence.

I made a mistake...

What I should have typed was: -

I'd argue that somebody so desperate to end their life is is probably not capable of thinking about the consequences...

I don't doubt how traumatic it can be for those that witness the act or discover the person afterwards...

The point is, if we 'normalised' suicide instead of demonising those that wish to end their lives this might not be such a frequent occurrence....

[Just One More]

Clarkson needs to understand about depression and desperation before he spouts such bollocks. The person throwing themselves in front of the train is not in their "right" mind. No "right-minded" person would carry out such an act. He needs to look at what led to that person carrying out that act, then maybe he'd understand and show some compassion for all involved

[Nick]

 

[Barman]

Clarkson needs to understand about depression and desperation before he spouts such bollocks. The person throwing themselves in front of the train is not in their "right" mind. No "right-minded" person would carry out such an act. He needs to look at what led to that person carrying out that act, then maybe he'd understand and show some compassion for all involved

 

[GROWLER]

 

He does, as do I, but more importantly now, in the AFTERMATH  the 'event', (what's done is done with no turning back) those that are left behind to pick the pieces up that were probably reasonably happy and content, but have now been turned into a total and utter mental mess themselves.

I know of perfectly normal and happy (ish) people that have topped themselves because of one of their close friends or relatives doing just that. THAT'S just how bad things can spiral out of control for the unthought of, unconsidered ones that are left behind.

I'm not trying to understand or even discuss severe mental illness here, as I am NOT an expert on the subject, I'm merely...and repeating myself....trying to state my full horror, understanding sympathy support and sadness to those that are left behind.

The treating of those with severe mental problems that cannot help themselves need to be dealt with more stringently by those that actually know what they are proffesionally talking about, and i admit that I am NOT one of those.

[Snoopy]

Well ~ I think that's all thrashed out now ....... shall we accept that we are never all going to agree and move on?