So how many more are going to die?

[Nick]

And Growler and I have the same MP and he is a useless salary man. He votes as he is bidden. I have given up writing to him - and I used to do it every week. And he has a huge majority.

[Snoopy]

Who He?

[Misunderstood]

I have become thoroughly angered and depressed reading this thread because, like Growler I would love to be out on the streets kicking heads until a bit of common decency returned to our country.

But wait!  I can?t do that any more, ? I forgot  - I am a pathetic disabled pensioner, I get so worked up about it that I forget to account for the fact that I couldn?t punch my way out of a wet paper bag.  And that makes me even madder, when I was young and fit enough to do something about it there wasn?t a problem, a good talking to dissolved the gangs.

So what happened?  Ah yes I know, we oppressed the youngsters, we made their lives miserable by laying down rules and enforcing them with an occasional clip around the ear.  So we went and banned it all,  in out usual ham-fisted manner we went too far ? we went overboard in fact and now they are untouchable, safe and sure that the law will protect them because adults abuse children and kids are only having a little fun, they have nowhere to go and nothing to do ? they have to hang on corners.

We can?t touch them and they know it!  If a particular person becomes an annoying  problem just kill him! The problem goes away and there isn?t much of a chance of getting nailed for it because they have rights. You can?t torture them can you?

That is where we are, kids with rights; it has often been said that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Well, we have watched it happen in front of our eyes now, so believe it!  It has always happened in politics but the effect tends to be a bit more subtle and so we let it go. This I think I a matter of survival of our country.

So where do we go from here?

It has always been easy to give power.  The anguish is caused by taking it away again; witness the differing attitudes of government parties coming and going to affirm that.

A government in power in a democracy is mandated to serve the whole country - not just the ones that voted for them, they are obliged to act in our best interests regardless of allegiance. When laws are passed or positions held to the detriment of a majority of the population of the country then that democratic government is democratic no longer and should be challenged by everyone that feels aggrieved by it. If necessary demand a change of government or a referendum to change the law.

The real rub would be ? how to change to law?  To overreact and swing the balance the other way would be just as bad ? imaging a society where you could beat up anyone that stood still or looked ?suspicious? ? that would be no better.

Here is a chance to air your feelings about bringing about sensible change with the aim of restoring peace and safety to the streets without victimising any group that is lawfully entitled to be there.

If we can cobble together a creditable plan to achieve that then maybe we can make a start towards a national protest and pressure forum.  The only way to make government listen is to threaten their home comforts and future.  Growler languishing in a Liverpool jail and me in a Cardiff jail would achieve nothing except disgrace and lost credibility, so get thinking ? I?m listening.

[Sour Puss]

 

Count me in, I was about to reply that I agree with the Landlady, I sometimes wish I would not jump in, but I do and I know I would again, people like Nick who think first are the lucky ones. I know that it is stupid, but I cannot help myself if I see someting wrong I have to act first...  I could be the next one to leave kids and grandkids behind. 

[Berek]

I know iv'e posted it before but its worth another look..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nxo0fS2VMM

[Misunderstood]

Come on....  As isolated moaners on forums we count for nothing.

We need an alternative thought process to advocate, and then start pushing it.

How about additional charges to be brought for conspiracy to commit assault/murder/damage/whatever applicable to every single participant or onlooker that did nothing to try to prevent it, aimed at bringing mob culture to account.

Bearing in mind of course, that would apply equally to any groups of householders that chose to retaliate.....   

[Snoopy]

Come on....  As isolated moaners on forums we count for nothing.

We need an alternative thought process to advocate, and then start pushing it.

How about additional charges to be brought for conspiracy to commit assault/murder/damage/whatever applicable to every single participant or onlooker that did nothing to try to prevent it, aimed at bringing mob culture to account.

Bearing in mind of course, that would apply equally to any groups of householders that chose to retaliate.....   

Somebody, I forget who, said on the radio recently that we have more than enough laws ~ what is lacking is the will/ability to enforce them.
When I was a lad a policeman could "Move you along" if more than two gathered at any point on the street. Whatever happened to that? It worked against the "Teddy Boys" and don't anybody try telling me that the current crop are any "harder" because I won't believe it.

[Misunderstood]

Somebody, I forget who, said on the radio recently that we have more than enough laws ~ what is lacking is the will/ability to enforce them.
When I was a lad a policeman could "Move you along" if more than two gathered at any point on the street. Whatever happened to that? It worked against the "Teddy Boys" and don't anybody try telling me that the current crop are any "harder" because I won't believe it.

That doesn't work any more for two reasons.
 
1) Because they are 'at risk children' and some nasty man may proposition them if they are moved on out of mummy's sight.

2) Whilst Teddy Boys were hard, they had a modicum of respect for the law, these days the law forbids any action against them - even by the police.

That, in my view IS the problem.

Nothing that we can do will be effective until we can hold them responsible for their actions and pay the price. 
Murder, is the ultimate crime so the punishment must be ultimate too.  The requirement to adequately punish is not only to make the convicted person pay for his crime but more importantly deter others from similar actions.

At present this tactic is only applied to traffic law - parking and speeding.  A first step would be to reinstate the dedicated traffic police to do that job, put all these private pretend policemen on the protesters case and personal protection and let the real police get on with the job of policing crime - properly.

[Snoopy]

So we need to teach them respect and discipline.
Bring back the cane in schools
Get rid of 75% of all female teachers currently in the majority in Secondary Schools and employ males to teach boys and females to teach girls.
Bring back National Service ~ exactly as it was (not as the "Modern Army" likes to see itself) with the usual exemptions/deferments for bona fide students etc ~  ~ BUT do not arm the little scrotes with anything more lethal than a pick and shovel. Use them as a National Labour Force to build new prisons (replacing the old ones with new and bigger) repair and replace roads, railways, build the much needed "affordable housing" etc ~ all subject to Army discipline.
Send all the Poles currently working in the building trade packing by using our own National Labour Force instead.
By the end of two years the conscripts will have a trade and some self respect.
All problems solved. They get a trade to support them throughout their lives and it becomes a rolling programme for future generations. We would end up with a decent infrastructure, good modern prisons and transport links and a disciplined workforce that would actually want to see the system continue. "If it were good enough fer me then it's good enough for thee"

It won't happen of course but I can dream .................. 

[Misunderstood]

I would basically agree with that, save adding a comment to the effect that if we don't start compulsory civilisation lessons soon, then there will be nobody left to do the teaching.

It is not only a change of tactics though, it needs a major change of attitude in how the country is being run before we can even begin to visualise corrective measures.

We have to recognise that our country has gone to the dogs and needs saving first.

The concept of defence and retaliation needs to be re-thought, the crime must always be the original action that started any confrontation off and any subsequent actions treated accordingly, likewise when caught in a compromised criminal act then the normal rules of civilised behaviour are suspended for the perpetrator and only unconditional surrender will return any rights.

The penalty to most innocent people involved for getting it wrong is injury or death and if the villain doesn't get you the state will.  This has to end otherwise there will be only criminals and cowards left in the country.

We must introduce a culture where would-be criminal fear what may happen to them and victims are encouraged to defend and retaliate to whatever extent is necessary to end an attack.

It may already be too late because the current trend is to say (in court) "I'm gonna kill you when I get out" and mean it. and when they get to that level of contempt for law and order then only life (or death) is going to solve the problem.

[GROWLER]

Three youths - two aged 15 and a third aged 16 - appeared at Runcorn Youth Court. The boys, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, spoke only to confirm their names and addresses.

Joanne Parsons, prosecuting, told the court Mr Newlove died as a result of a haemorrhage caused by a hard blow near his left ear.

Roger Allanson, defending the 15-year-olds, said they both denied the charge.



Well THIS needs to be binned for a start. These little scumbag bastards need naming and shaming, if not now, then certainly after they've been found guilty, but no, they have their protection rights.
Don't make me  anymore.

Good old Roger ey? Spouting what he's paid to say ey?
These bastards are guilty. They were caught on CCTV I believe, and the plod must be pretty damned sure to even charge them.

[Mr Happy]

OK we want tough action, simple, here we go.

When the Police know more than one person is guilty of a crime and they've caught one, make them grass.  Alternatively, imprison them until they do.

There's been at least 8 arrests in the Warrington case, how are they going to prove who dealt the fatal blow?  Not a problem, everyone involved is equally guilty.

Any physical assault is attempted murder.

Everybody has the right to a defence but lawyers shouldn't be looking for loopholes in the law.  If somebody pleads not guilty and is found guilty they get longer thus preventing every scrote pleading not guilty and lining the lawyers pocket.

We have mentioned the need to deter, death penalty, hangings from lamp posts.  Why not the American style justice where they are at the side of the road doing physical labour?  How about using them for medical research?

While I'm on it, drink drivers that run someone over get charged with murder / attempted murder.  No sod it, anyone caught drink driving gets done for attempted murder as does anyone driving without MOT / Insurance.

There's a brief start...

[GROWLER]

Who's the useless bloody MP that I need to write to about this never ending and forever increasing wave of mindless thugery.
I'm severely pissed off about all this and want to add my voice of great concern over the total lack of control and justice over these bastards that are ruling our streets, and ruining our lives.
Something has to be done, and done RIGHT NOW.

[Mr Happy]

Would another approach be anarchy?

The prisons are full, too full to lock up murderers.  Scrotes seem to be able to smash up cars, vandalise property and kick people to death without fear.

How about 1000's of Joe Averages descend upon all public buildings, parliament, the queens digs etc and cause carnage.  We could all learn graffiti skills and tag 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' all over the shop.

[GROWLER]

Slightly off topic, but still very relevant as to just how much this country is rapidly declining, I was shocked and horrified to read this story that I found on another forum.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/6947673.stm

Just how bastard sick is THAT ey?
We ...not literally us lot....are breeding a nation of mindless worthless filth, that are rapidly taking over this country.
I can't begin to imagine just how bad it's going to be in say 30 years from now at the rapid rate it's going downhill.