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Author Topic: Frances Lawrence  (Read 2006 times)

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Offline Barman

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Frances Lawrence
« on: August 21, 2007, 10:46:05 AM »
Did anybody else hear the interview with Frances Lawrence this morning?

She is the wife of Headmaster Philip Lawrence who was stabbed by some 15 year old chav 12 years ago now.

I thought it was remarkably dignified and moving. It is topical now because the murderer (whose name I can?t pronounce) is due for parole. There is a debate as to whether he should be deported or not.

The thing that struck me about it though was why should the guy be eligible for parole after just 12 years ? what message does that send out to others that might be considering taking a knife with them when they set out to school.

You can listen to the full interview here.
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2007, 10:54:41 AM »
Let's get this straight ..... he is not due for parole. He will shortly be eligible, under the laws we allow this shite Government to enact, to APPLY for parole. There is no saying he will be granted parole. Also, due to his age at the time of sentence, should he be granted parole and subsequently re-offend at anytime during the rest of his life he is liable to be recalled to prison to serve out the remainder of the LIFE sentence.

Yes I thought the lady was dignified but determined on vengeance.
She needs to move on ~ the past cannot be undone.
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Offline Darwins Selection

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 11:06:36 AM »
She needs to move on ~ the past cannot be undone.

 noooo: Easy to say.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2007, 11:21:35 AM »
He was a young man ? perfectly capable of making his own decisions. He decided to take a knife to the school and thought it was acceptable to stab somebody with it.

I think twelve years it too short.

However, I don?t believe that deporting him is appropriate either but it is unfortunately a distraction from the real debate.

It is very easy to say ?move on? yet knowing that this young thug will be out and about enjoying his life while she still grieves for her husband must be sickening.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 11:24:59 AM »
I don't really see how he can be effectively deported to another EU country anyhow. Does he get a "Don't come back" stamp in his passport or summat? rubschin:
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 11:31:04 AM »
I agree that 12 years is too short but that is only the minimum that he must serve before he can apply for parole. If they turn him down (and all his contrition and subsequent pre-hearing publicity is designed to try to influence that decision in his favour) he will have to stay in prison until they permit him to apply again.

As for how the lady moves on --- I have no idea. P'raps a psychiatrist would help --- all I am saying is she needs to or she will sink ever deeper until .........

This is more about people playing politics than anything else. I see Jack Straw in the Wind is offering to meet the lady now. That'll be a great help I'm sure.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2007, 11:32:45 AM by Snoopy »
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Offline Nick

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2007, 11:36:14 AM »
Jack Straw is a hesitiating idiot. If you listen to him most of what he says consists of "um".
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 11:41:54 AM »
Jack Straw is a hesitiating idiot. If you listen to him most of what he says consists of "um".

Like I said ~ sure to help Mrs Lawrence  ::)
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Berek

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 01:57:42 PM »
I don't really see how he can be effectively deported to another EU country anyhow. Does he get a "Don't come back" stamp in his passport or summat? rubschin:

He has an Italian passport, and he should be deported simply because of his haircut


Misunderstood

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2007, 09:52:22 PM »
I have always been an enthusiastic supporter of the Human Rights Act. as I believe there should be a code of conduct to which people in authority can be held to account and stopped from unfair discrimination of people.    But to live in a society where the judiciary decree that human rights should prevail in prison but not in elderly care homes, where the rights of a criminal are considered paramount in a case where he has permanently deprived another of his human rights .
Where the criminal element appears to be the only section of society that benefits from this fair behaviour because it is considered too expensive to grant to others and denied only where social need meets lawful resistance.

I am sure the Act never intended this disgraceful turn of events to happen where the rights of law abiding innocent peoples rights are being ridden slipshod by those that care for the law only for as far as it will benefit them to continue their evil ways, and I think it is time that we looked again at the question of rights.

In a civilised society where we all agree to be governed by the rule of law there must be a penalty to pay for wilfully breaking it.  And for fairness to prevail then the rights of a victim must come first in any weighing up of the consequences that way the punishment would more likely fit the crime.   If a situation has been created where a person has been permanently deprived, the sentence of permanently losing their human rights too should apply.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that there should be a replacement for this fatally flawed Act, along the lines of Human Rights and Responsibilities. Whereas one deserves the other in equal shares, The principle of abandonment of rights as soon as the intent to commit a crime should become a reality.  and victims should get the top slice of any rights issues.

At present, there is absolutely no incentive to refrain from crime, in fact the balance of probability shows only too clearly that one will likely profit from it, so the risk is worth it.  Even in jail there is still a chance of coming out on top whilst in all cases the innocent law-abiding citizen picks up the bill. 

If I were Mrs Lawrence I would be as mad as hell!  Not only has her husband gone forever but so has another slice of humanity. People just won't get involved in incidents like that an who could blame them when the murderer wins human rights claims.  in my view his sentence should last the same amount of time that she spends as a widow.

Where is our King Solomon when we need him?

Offline Barman

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 06:41:09 AM »
I don?t believe this to be a human rights issue ? it is a sentencing issue but unfortunately the debate has been hijacked.

For what it is worth I think it would be wrong to deport him to Italy. He has been in the UK for the best part of his life and as has been pointed out he could presumably just return anyway, them being in the EU and everything.

I would have preferred to have seen a minimum sentence for this crime of at least 25 years. He was out with a knife that was apparently not to be used to sharpen his pencil and he murdered somebody. 25 years would in my opinion be a deterrent to others and a comfort to the victim?s family.
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Offline Bar Wench

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2007, 08:04:16 AM »
Let's get this straight ..... he is not due for parole. He will shortly be eligible, under the laws we allow this shite Government to enact, to APPLY for parole. There is no saying he will be granted parole. Also, due to his age at the time of sentence, should he be granted parole and subsequently re-offend at anytime during the rest of his life he is liable to be recalled to prison to serve out the remainder of the LIFE sentence.

Yes I thought the lady was dignified but determined on vengeance.
She needs to move on ~ the past cannot be undone.

If some little barsteward stabbed Mr Wench at school I too would be hell bent on vegenance. You can move on and accept the death without losing the desire for the towrag to rot in hell.

Offline Barman

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2007, 09:30:24 AM »
Let's get this straight ..... he is not due for parole. He will shortly be eligible, under the laws we allow this shite Government to enact, to APPLY for parole. There is no saying he will be granted parole. Also, due to his age at the time of sentence, should he be granted parole and subsequently re-offend at anytime during the rest of his life he is liable to be recalled to prison to serve out the remainder of the LIFE sentence.

Yes I thought the lady was dignified but determined on vengeance.
She needs to move on ~ the past cannot be undone.

If some little barsteward stabbed Mr Wench at school I too would be hell bent on vegenance. You can move on and accept the death without losing the desire for the towrag to rot in hell.
Yes, what she said?
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Misunderstood

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2007, 11:15:08 AM »
Listening to the take about vengeance, I am reminded of the hounding of Myra Hindley.

Now that was vengeance!  And at the end of the day they both did a similar thing except one died in jail and another gets his human rights back in twelve (or whatever).

I am aware of the differences in the cases but the bottom line was a loss of innocent life. 

Offline Darwins Selection

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Re: Frances Lawrence
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2007, 11:45:22 AM »
I too would be hell bent on vegenance.

I think I would do something more serious than just giving up eating meat.

Of course I am not acquainted with Mr Wench, so that is pure supposition.   redface:
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