Fucking Atos

[Barman]

Sorry to hear about your mate....

I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...

But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...

Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...

I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...

Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... 

The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote.  Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future.  At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.

The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... 

The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...

[Tipsy Gipsy]

Sorry to hear about your mate....

I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...

But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...

Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...

I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...

Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... 

The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote.  Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future.  At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.

The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... 

The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...

True but apparently the only thing that changes anything is the weather.  Raining or not raining is what decides which Gubberment we get.   

[Miss Adventure]

Sorry to hear about your mate....

I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...

But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...

Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...

I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...

Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... 

The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote.  Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future.  At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.

The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... 

The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...

True but apparently the only thing that changes anything is the weather.  Raining or not raining is what decides which Gubberment we get.   

Australia has compulsory voting and IMHO this has lead to some poor and weak governments and created poor and weak 'career' politicians. This combined with PR means that a situation can and has occurred where one Independent or a Green can hold the balance of power in the lower house and / Senate. The general public, generally get what it deserves, and if half of them are on benefits or welfare of some form then they will vote for whoever maintains the status quo.

[Barman]

Sorry to hear about your mate....

I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...

But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...

Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...

I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...

Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... 

The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote.  Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future.  At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.

The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... 

The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...

True but apparently the only thing that changes anything is the weather.  Raining or not raining is what decides which Gubberment we get.   

Australia has compulsory voting and IMHO this has lead to some poor and weak governments and created poor and weak 'career' politicians. This combined with PR means that a situation can and has occurred where one Independent or a Green can hold the balance of power in the lower house and / Senate. The general public, generally get what it deserves, and if half of them are on benefits or welfare of some form then they will vote for whoever maintains the status quo.

Indeed...

the current coalition in the UK shows us how dangerous it is for a (unelectable) minority party to hold the balance of power...

[Grumpmeister]

I think that the problem with voter apathy is twofold, firstly that they look at the different parties, can't see a difference between the main three and don't see any of the smaller ones having a hope in hell of getting enough votes to make a change leading people to believe that voting will be a waste of time. In that respect if ballot papers had a none of the above option I suspect we'd see a large increase in votes cast. Secondly is the issue of candidate quality, with very few exceptions MP's are seen as being so far removed from the real world that they couldn't find it with a map and a team of sherpas.

One major change that needs to be made, something that I have believed for a long time, is that other than the PM and Deputy PM cabinet members should not be serving MP's. Look at the positions awarded over the last few governments and I doubt that you could count on one hand the number that would have been given to any of them if they had been applying for a similar role in a business. No relevant experience, no relevant qualifications, just a history of kissing the arse of whoever is sat in No 10. Is it too much to ask to have a chancellor who has worked in the financial sector and understands national and global economics, a defence minister who has served in the armed forces (and ideally seen active service), people who understand the truly understand the complexities of their portfolios and has actual real world and real life experience and not spent a few years working in some bullshit PR role or something similar before joining the 'political class'.

And even if you disagree with the experience factor, being an MP is a full time job (or at least should be if it is being done properly) as is being a cabinet member. Trying to do 2 full time jobs at once just means that the quality of work done in both cases suffers so why the hell should we accept second rate service just so that they can feel self important about having extra power.

[Steve]

Sorry to hear about your mate....

I can see the need for evaluating people and it is obviously popular with the public...

But as usual it has been rushed into place and fucked up - like everything the gubberment does...

Something needs to change big-time with politics in the UK - it is a complete fucking farce...

I was reading yesterday about the 'free school meals' policy that they pulled out of the bag - compulsory from next year...

Of course no account has been taken of the fact that some schools don't even have kitchens or space to build them... 

The only thing that needs to change in the UK is for the British People to turn out and vote.  Vote for the best available and more, better able people will emerge in the future.  At the moment the best for the job will not put themselves forward while the complacency that is the British Nation is not compulsory made to participate.

The EU does not allow compulsory voting.... 

The problem in the UK is that because of the way the LibLabCons have set it all up over the years, most people live in a 'safe seat' and their vote counts for nothing...

But given a referendum to change that and what did the electorate do?  Vote to keep the current idiocy. 

Compulsory voting?  What Miss A said - seconded.  No no no no NO! to compulsory voting, it's fundamentally dishonest.

I'll court further BM bile by saying the coalition has on the whole done well compared to the alternatives.  5 years more of the Gorgon or 5 years of a narrow Tory faction blackmailing the government (as happened with Major) and we really would be in a pickle.  For all their many faults the Libs forced on Osborne that massive taking of low paid out of tax as part of the deal. 

Meister's idea has merit imho but I suspect voters would hate it.  And there we get back to the root issue, most people are inherently shallow and they vote shallow so by and large we get the governments they deserve, arguably better.  For all their faults at least Thatcher and Blair were leaders.  What would encourage a real honest leader into politics now?

[Barman]

I suppose the €64B question is how to change it…?

First of all I would slash the size of the gubberment and civil service – it tries to micro-manage every aspect of our lives and the monster grows bigger every year. Cut the size and scope of gubberment and many of the issues go away.

Secondly I would ban lobbying. Lobbying should come from the people that vote for MPs, not large corporations, single issue campaign groups and (fake) charities.

Thirdly I would make the manifesto mandatory. If you pledge to do something when shopping for votes it should be done in the term of the parliament. Likewise, things that are not in your manifesto (like marriage for the gayers and the smoking ban) would not be allowed without additional approval from the people.

Fourthly I agree with grumpmeister but would go further. Nobody should be an MP that has no real-world experience. Career MPs rely on the Civil Service, lobby groups and party donors to tell them what the ‘real world’ is like and what they should do.

The coalition has done well – for themselves. They have made big government even bigger, kept the ridiculous green taxes, lied about the referendum and have broken just about every promise they made in opposition. There has been no bonfire of the quangos and the economy has ‘grown’ on the back of printing money and a mountain of debt.

[Steve]

. . lied about the referendum  . . .

Which referendum?

[Barman]

. . lied about the referendum  . . .

Which referendum?

The EU one...

...the one promised for 2017...

...the one that won't happen...

[Grumpmeister]

Fourthly I agree with grumpmeister but would go further. Nobody should be an MP that has no real-world experience. Career MPs rely on the Civil Service, lobby groups and party donors to tell them what the ‘real world’ is like and what they should do.

I meant to add that in as well but didn't realise I'd missed it out. Years ago when I was in college our newly elected MP was a famous former athlete who had been 'recommended' by central office. I'd had to meet him for some reason (I think some of us had won an award or something at the college. whatever it was it was a minor event that was considered a good photo opportunity for him). I don't think he was overly impressed with me when I asked how being able to run really fast qualified him to become a member of parliament though.

It wouldn't be the first time that a party has lied about an EU referendum, all three main parties have made that promise at one point or another. I think that unfortunately the problem is that whether or not they personally believe that EU membership is a good thing or not is immaterial, there is too much self interest with payments and potential job roles once their political career in the UK is over that they wouldn't want to risk it.

[Miss Adventure]

Oh dear Steve, just when I was beginning to have a warm feeling about you and me agreeing on something, you had to go and be deliberately provocative! Now I can't even do the ironing without feeling as though I want to give you a good tongue lashing - if only we were in a real boozer!

Where to start though... Blair being a good leader? don't know how you came up with that? The coalition doing well They are as weak as gnat's pi**, constantly having to kow-tow to Clegg, haven't even started to cut the deficit yet, only the rate at which at which it is growing - Vince Cable should stick to doing the cha cha and Danny Alexander should join him. The Libdems will probably pimp themselves out again after the next election and join a nice LibLab pact - there's a thought. What's next?  The idea that taking people out of tax is a good idea? - everyone should pay something, even a small amount, people need to feel that they are enfranchised and that they have a stake in society as opposed to taking from it,  possibly thinking that PR might be a good system?

Finally, the word shallow is a bit derogatory, we just all tend to vote according to how it affects our pocket - that's just human nature

I can only deduce from this Watson that you must be a Libdem - they don't call me Miss A of the Yard for nothing

[Steve]

I'm a floating voter Miss A.    My recall is in General Elections I have voted

Labour:            Three times
Libs:                 Once
Conservatives: Four times
Spoilt vote:       Twice

I didn't say Blair was a good leader, I never ever voted for him.   I didn't say Thatcher was a good leader either but they both could lead real change.  I want good leaders as I want change and we're not going to get too many of them all the time lies about politicians circulate round and round the interweb without challenge. 

So I will challenge and if pointing out the sometimes awkward truth makes me unpopular so be it

Oh I had to ask BM "which referendum" because Cameron made several promises on all sorts of referendums from local to devolution to Europe.  AFAIK not one promise he or others made has ever been broken but I have frequently seen their promises misrepresented. 

As for saying Cameron is lying as a referendum won't occur in 2017 then that's just guesswork.  The bill to ensure we have one is due in the Lords soon having been passed by the Commons with Cameron voting in support.

[Miss Adventure]

Apologies Steve, I got carried away with the starch - I don't think that challenging makes you unpopular - I think it's good to make us all think a bit occasionally.

Fair point about the referendum, I also agree with you about the faith school thing, all free schooling here is in the Greek language and Greek-Orthodox based, all are welcome, but if you don't like it then you have to pay - and the alternative is often inferior.

[Barman]

Firstly Cameron is unlikely to get back in at the 2015 elections....

Secondly, my understanding is that the rules change in 2014 - this year - making it impossible to leave the EU without the consent of every other member... which is never likely to happen...

Cameron is obviously aware of this...

[Steve]

Cheers for that Miss A.  You should see the grief I get on serious political forums for pointing out the awkward

Firstly Cameron is unlikely to get back in at the 2015 elections....

Secondly, my understanding is that the rules change in 2014 - this year - making it impossible to leave the EU without the consent of every other member... which is never likely to happen...

Cameron is obviously aware of this...

I think you're referring to the opt outs from various police and crime measures which we have to decide on by the end of May

I beleive Cameron is very aware, it's been in most of the papers.  Here's the official briefing

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-home-affairs-sub-committee-f-/inquiries/parliament-2010/protocol-36/

Protocol 36 of the Treaty of Lisbon allows the Government to decide, by 31 May 2014, whether the UK should continue to be bound by approximately 130 police and criminal justice (PCJ) measures, which would all become subject to the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union and the European Commission’s enforcement powers, or if it should exercise its right to opt-out of them all. Either scenario would then take effect from 1 December 2014. The Government has undertaken to organise a debate and a vote in each House before a decision is made.


The Government’s announcement by the Home Secretary on 9 July 2013 provided a list of the 35 measures that the Government would seek to rejoin should the opt-out be exercised. The announcement and the absence of this list of measures during the Committee’s original inquiry has prompted the decision to reopen the inquiry to further scrutinise these developments.

The right to leave the EU altogether was reintroduced in the Lisbon treaty and has no time limit.  The devil in the detail is the terms of exit are not defined, there is no requirement for the remaining EU to continue to trade at all with any exiting country.