Corona Bingo...

[Steve]

I didn't comment on your false statement about 'the overwhelming Democrat support for the thousands who have been out at the BLM riots/protests/looting burning and pillaging bonanza'

Errrr.... they have tho.... 

Overwhelmingly supporting 'looting burning and pillaging'?  or a few hot heads that may or may not have some allegiance to the Democrat party

[Barman]

I didn't comment on your false statement about 'the overwhelming Democrat support for the thousands who have been out at the BLM riots/protests/looting burning and pillaging bonanza'

Errrr.... they have tho.... 

Overwhelmingly supporting 'looting burning and pillaging'?  or a few hot heads that may or may not have some allegiance to the Democrat party

I'd say overwhelming... Perhaps it depends on where you get your news from... 

Perhaps not calling it 'looting burning and pillaging' (which is what is was/is) but peaceful protests against racism... Still the same overwhelming support tho....

[Steve]

Nah

[Steve]

Back on topic I see Boris and co got shredded by the Public Accounts Committee of MPs (mainly Tory) in words that look a lot like gross negligence in everything but name

'2.Discharging patients from hospital into social care without first testing them for COVID-19 was an appalling error. Shockingly, Government policy up to and including 15 April was to not test all patients discharged from hospital for COVID-19. In the period up to 15 April, up to a maximum of five symptomatic residents would be tested in a care home in order to confirm an outbreak. Belatedly, after discharging 25,000 people from hospitals to care homes between 17 March and 15 April, the Department confirmed a new policy of testing everyone prior to admission to care homes. Public Health England confirmed that it was already becoming clear in late March, and certainly from the beginning of April, that the COVID-19 infection had an asymptomatic phase, when people could be infectious without being aware they were sick. The Department does not know how many of the 25,000 discharged patients had COVID-19. The number of reported first-time outbreaks in individual care homes peaked at 1,009 in early April.'

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/40505.htm

Full report makes even more uncomfortable reading for Boris and his bodgers  'When we challenged the Department and the NHS on such a reckless and negligent policy'

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/405.pdf

[Barman]

Back on topic I see Boris and co got shredded by the Public Accounts Committee of MPs (mainly Tory) in words that look a lot like gross negligence in everything but name

'2.Discharging patients from hospital into social care without first testing them for COVID-19 was an appalling error. Shockingly, Government policy up to and including 15 April was to not test all patients discharged from hospital for COVID-19. In the period up to 15 April, up to a maximum of five symptomatic residents would be tested in a care home in order to confirm an outbreak. Belatedly, after discharging 25,000 people from hospitals to care homes between 17 March and 15 April, the Department confirmed a new policy of testing everyone prior to admission to care homes. Public Health England confirmed that it was already becoming clear in late March, and certainly from the beginning of April, that the COVID-19 infection had an asymptomatic phase, when people could be infectious without being aware they were sick. The Department does not know how many of the 25,000 discharged patients had COVID-19. The number of reported first-time outbreaks in individual care homes peaked at 1,009 in early April.'

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/40505.htm

Full report makes even more uncomfortable reading for Boris and his bodgers  'When we challenged the Department and the NHS on such a reckless and negligent policy'

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/405.pdf

It was a terrible policy... 

Unfortunately other countries did the same thing... Sweden for instance... This isn't a Boris problem...

What is the problem (IMHO) is listening to discredited  scientists whose models convinced governments around the world that millions were going to die and the health service(s) would not be able to cope... Hence shipping anybody that could walk out to care homes and building massive (and unused) Nightingale hospitals...

Sadly we are still listening to them and their fantasy stories of bigger and better second waves... 

Cyprus government is in 'Emergency Talks' now because of 13 cases in Limassol... I fully expect Lockdown to be reinstated in the near future... 

[apc2010]

Back on topic I see Boris and co got shredded by the Public Accounts Committee of MPs (mainly Tory) in words that look a lot like gross negligence in everything but name

'2.Discharging patients from hospital into social care without first testing them for COVID-19 was an appalling error. Shockingly, Government policy up to and including 15 April was to not test all patients discharged from hospital for COVID-19. In the period up to 15 April, up to a maximum of five symptomatic residents would be tested in a care home in order to confirm an outbreak. Belatedly, after discharging 25,000 people from hospitals to care homes between 17 March and 15 April, the Department confirmed a new policy of testing everyone prior to admission to care homes. Public Health England confirmed that it was already becoming clear in late March, and certainly from the beginning of April, that the COVID-19 infection had an asymptomatic phase, when people could be infectious without being aware they were sick. The Department does not know how many of the 25,000 discharged patients had COVID-19. The number of reported first-time outbreaks in individual care homes peaked at 1,009 in early April.'

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/40505.htm

Full report makes even more uncomfortable reading for Boris and his bodgers  'When we challenged the Department and the NHS on such a reckless and negligent policy'

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmpubacc/405/405.pdf

It was a terrible policy... 

Unfortunately other countries did the same thing... Sweden for instance... This isn't a Boris problem...

What is the problem (IMHO) is listening to discredited  scientists whose models convinced governments around the world that millions were going to die and the health service(s) would not be able to cope... Hence shipping anybody that could walk out to care homes and building massive (and unused) Nightingale hospitals...

Sadly we are still listening to them and their fantasy stories of bigger and better second waves... 

Cyprus government is in 'Emergency Talks' now because of 13 cases in Limassol... I fully expect Lockdown to be reinstated in the near future... 

 

[Steve]

Cyprus has been a success, certainly compared to the UK
 
And the problem with the care homes:  the powers that be either didn't ask or didn't listen to the scientists.  Hancock keeps saying no one knew about asymptomatic transmission.  Awkwardly for him the SAGE meeting minutes show they very much did.  This could get very serious for Hancock, there is a crime of gross negligence manslaughter. 
 

[Barman]

Cyprus has been a success, certainly compared to the UK
 

Not really, the place is FUBAR... Time will tell obvs.

But IMHO locking people indoors for months on end, demanding they request permission to leave their homes once a day, enforcing a curfew and destroying the economy is not really 'success'... 

I posted on a forum here a while back that the danger of Lockdown and scaring the population to death is that Lockdown becomes the default 'solution' to the next outbreak of flu... There are still people here who are terrified to go out, who buy on-line and sanitise the shopping when it arrives... 

Our favourite restaurant in Epi has closed forever... So that is the owner, his wife, four or five staff, the landlord, the guy that supplied the wine, the guy that supplied the food, the electricity company - all impacted... Imagine that multiplied all over the island... 

Look at Apey and all the other DJs, the hotels and all the restaurants that rely on the 'Summer Season' to maintain them throughout the year...

As I said, time will tell - but if (as I suspect) this turns out to be nothing more than a nasty dose of flu then Cyprus certainly won't have been a success - nor will any other country that FUBARed their economy because of it...

[The Moan Ranger]

Cyprus has been a success, certainly compared to the UK
 

Not really, the place is FUBAR... Time will tell obvs.

But IMHO locking people indoors for months on end, demanding they request permission to leave their homes once a day, enforcing a curfew and destroying the economy is not really 'success'... 

I posted on a forum here a while back that the danger of Lockdown and scaring the population to death is that Lockdown becomes the default 'solution' to the next outbreak of flu... There are still people here who are terrified to go out, who buy on-line and sanitise the shopping when it arrives... 

Our favourite restaurant in Epi has closed forever... So that is the owner, his wife, four or five staff, the landlord, the guy that supplied the wine, the guy that supplied the food, the electricity company - all impacted... Imagine that multiplied all over the island... 

Look at Apey and all the other DJs, the hotels and all the restaurants that rely on the 'Summer Season' to maintain them throughout the year...

As I said, time will tell - but if (as I suspect) this turns out to be nothing more than a nasty dose of flu then Cyprus certainly won't have been a success - nor will any other country that FUBARed their economy because of it...

 

[Steve]

Current world death rate of known cases is 6%, even IF it does get down to the fabled 1% that is way worse than flu because just about all of us have some resistance to flu and there's already proven vaccines.  Yes I know it's mainly over 50s that are dying, guess what I'm over 50 and the world would be stuffed without over 50s
 
This one is a bastard, it killed my uncle and nearly killed my friend Ed.  Yes the lockdown was savage economically but few businesses that were viable long term will have gone under in the UK (I know not what underpinning finances Cyprus put in place).  There is no win win win option.
 
It seems to me that the UK government has secretly decided that a long term death rate of 100 a day is acceptable and you know what, I may have got huge grief for this elsewhere, but I agree with them because deaths would still be under 100,000 even if we have to wait a year for a vaccine.  And if we get no vaccine then yes lockdown at least bought us an opportunity.
 

 

[Barman]

Current world death rate of known cases is 6%

Stop right there! 

Best estimate for the IFR is now around 0.26% and it could be as low as 0.1%...

Even if you take the Worldometer data (which you refer to frequently) is is under 4% (671,000 deaths, 17 million cases)...

Just look at the numbers... Population of 7.8 billion people world wide and this deadly disease has managed to kill under a million...? 

Loads of people have it, have had it without ever appearing in the numbers...

And looking at Cyprus as an example...

We've about a million-and-a-bit people, 1,000 cases and 19 deaths... Oh and the entire economy is now FUBAR.... That isn't success by any measure... 

Oh and I don't doubt it is a bastard if you get it and have underlying health problems. But LL had it in February (it was a bastard) and is more likely to die from falling shelves than Covid...

...and personally, I know more people that have been abducted and murdered than have been killed by Covid...

[The Moan Ranger]

https://order-order.com/2020/07/28/brits-believe-coronavirus-death-is-100-times-larger-than-it-really-is/

I simply don't believe it's 6%.

[Barman]

https://order-order.com/2020/07/28/brits-believe-coronavirus-death-is-100-times-larger-than-it-really-is/

I simply don't believe it's 6%.

No... It will turn out to be 0.1%... Like The Flu... 

The sad thing is that I argue with people on-line who believe it is 6% and still expect tens of millions of deaths... You can sense their disappointment that it is still under 1 million....  Of course, the numbers are under-reported.... 

[Steve]

https://order-order.com/2020/07/28/brits-believe-coronavirus-death-is-100-times-larger-than-it-really-is/

I simply don't believe it's 6%.

670,454 deaths out of 11,387,178 Cases which had an outcome.  Sure looks like 6%

There are 5,814,099 currently known sick that may recover or may die but can't be used to get a 4% figure.  The big unknown is how many have or have had it and never registered on the stats.  To get to BM's 0.1% there'd have to be over 600 million of them and that does seem unlikely given the figures coming back from random testing.
 
It's worse than flu which is around 0.1% of cases and importantly very few people actually get flu each year thanks to vaccines. 

[Barman]

https://order-order.com/2020/07/28/brits-believe-coronavirus-death-is-100-times-larger-than-it-really-is/

I simply don't believe it's 6%.

670,454 deaths out of 11,387,178 Cases which had an outcome.  Sure looks like 6%

There are 5,814,099 currently known sick that may recover or may die but can't be used to get a 4% figure.  The big unknown is how many have or have had it and never registered on the stats.  To get to BM's 0.1% there'd have to be over 600 million of them and that does seem unlikely given the figures coming back from random testing.
 
It's worse than flu which is around 0.1% of cases and importantly very few people actually get flu each year thanks to vaccines.

Knock yourself out Steve...