Post Office Scandal

[Tipsy Gipsy]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi-xfmh8v_1AhUEM-wKHau3DWUQFnoECFcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fbusiness-60369875&usg=AOvVaw3la4XWPTHgo24_ZLpKSaBG

How come the Police computer experts didn’t investigate the software or at least look into the testing logs etc.   Too many times we hear they haven’t got time, staff, resources, money….   so what do they do?

[Nick]

Outrageous and I hear the gubberment is picking up the compensation bill and not the bastards at the PO

[Tipsy Gipsy]

That Gubberment has some deep pockets considering how long we were supposed to be in austerity for. 

 

[Nick]

Quite!

[Barman]

The whole thing is outrageous - heads should roll, but will they...?

[Nick]

Sadly, no

[Steve]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi-xfmh8v_1AhUEM-wKHau3DWUQFnoECFcQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fbusiness-60369875&usg=AOvVaw3la4XWPTHgo24_ZLpKSaBG

How come the Police computer experts didn’t investigate the software or at least look into the testing logs etc.   Too many times we hear they haven’t got time, staff, resources, money….   so what do they do?

because the Post Office and Fujitsu submitted expert witnesses that said Horizon was wonderful
 
Problem was they were actually experts in lying their arses off.
 
So to be fair to the government and police in the early days they weren't that much to blame.  But from about 2010 onwards it was very evident that Fujitsu witnesses had lied and Post Office execs had completely failedin any due of care to the truth.  We now have the absurdity that Paula Vennels is still a CBE and the government continued to give contracts to Fujitsu even though they knew them to be a dishonest company.
 
The compensation bill could top £2B for all the lives ruined and some lost.  Of course the Post Office can't afford their share of that so the government has put aside £1B but in truth even £2B won't be enough if the victims don't get to see the guilty in the same jails they had to endure, their marriages wrecked, their careers lost, them bankrupted and their homes repossessed..
 
And this inquiry is putting at least a year's delay in getting to that

[Tipsy Gipsy]

Sorry, the explanation was making perfect sense till the red mist came down again, everytime I think about it! 

[Barman]

The whole thing is utterly disgusting but will be ignored/forgotten far too quickly...

There have been so many miscarriages of justice, Michael Stone being another one recently and god knows how many others never come to light.

The system really is unfit for purpose.

I have absolutely no faith in the Police or the 'justice' system, it has become a complete joke... 

[Steve]

Computer Weekly were the people that first broke this story 13 years ago.  Here's their original article https://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240089230/Bankruptcy-prosecution-and-disrupted-livelihoods-Postmasters-tell-their-story (may need to register to read) but the first prosecution was around 2000.
 
What the CPS, courts in general and the police need to understand is the fallibility of complex computer systems and the willingness of project managers to try and cut corners in validation.  While it is relatively easy to generate a computer system that appears to work and  may look impressive in demonstrations, proving them to 'trusted computer' status takes a massive amount of work especially in validation and testing if proper work has not been done in the design phase.  And in my experience, some engineers, some managers and even some company directors will always try and see corners cut when they see schedule and budget pressures.  
 
Slightly worrying is that the CPS still appears to think it was a good thing that standards for computer based evidence in courts were just about scrapped in 1999  
 
Here's a more recent Computer Weekly article on why they think Fujitsu have got away with this, that they're still winning government contracts and the timeline of their reports on it
 
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252509066/Fujitsu-escaped-huge-lawsuit-because-Post-Office-behaved-so-badly-in-Horizon-scandal 

[Barman]

The whole thing is utterly disgusting but will be ignored/forgotten far too quickly...

There have been so many miscarriages of justice, Michael Stone being another one recently and god knows how many others never come to light.

The system really is unfit for purpose.

I have absolutely no faith in the Police or the 'justice' system, it has become a complete joke... 

And yet another...

'Extremely dangerous' sex offender, 56, ESCAPES from Lincolnshire open prison where he was serving two life sentences after he broke into a house through a cat flap and sexually assaulted woman - as police warn he could be 'anywhere in the country'

WTF was an 'extremely dangerous' double-life prisoner doing in an open prison? 

[Steve]

Quite

[Grumpmeister]

There is a long history of putting dangerous offenders in open prisons because it 'saves money' 

https://www.virtual-pub.com/SMF/index.php?topic=12512.0

The easy solution is to make all officials who are responsible for sentencing and placement legally accountable for any additional crimes carried out by an individual because they were placed inappropriately. Can't ever see that happening though.

[Steve]

I hate to ask an obvious question but just what does this sex offender have to do with the Post Office scandal?

[Barman]

I hate to ask an obvious question but just what does this sex offender have to do with the Post Office scandal?

I mentioned it in reply to my comment that the whole system is unfit for purpose...

It isn't just a problem with understanding complex computer systems - the whole thing top to bottom is FUBAR from the Police to the CPS to the Parole system...