UK 'exporting emissions' to China

[Marley's Ghost (Imbiber of Spirits)]

Yup! So vote the buggers out as soon as they give you the chance.

I would love to Snoops, but I have a problem with the alternatives. I fear for the liberty of the country under another 5 years of New Labour, but I can't bring myself to elect the little Englanders, while Ming has done a sterling job in making the Lib Dems completely irrelevant.

And there in lies the problem. Mr Wench has had enough of New Labour too but won't vote for the only possible alternative out of principle. Regardless of the fact that he might actually agree with them. 

It's not just principle in my case, it's trust as well. I don't trust them not to reverse the economic recovery of the regions, and look after their core voters in the home counties. I would need to be convinced that Mr Cameron intended to govern for the wellbeing of County Durham as well as West Oxfordshire. On the other hand, give New Labour another 5 years and we will have ID cards and laws on how to wipe your arse.

You have got to be joking CA!

That will never happen. Much more likely will be the idea to employ, at great public expense, an army of jobsworth Arse-Wipes (complete with cameras for photographic evidence) whose sole task will be to wipe your arse when necessary. Can't have you doing it yourself, after all, you might get hurt falling off the lavvy seat. H&S rules will preclude self wiping.

Another big plus will be for the mossies - they are supposed to adhere to all kinds of strict rules as to how and with which hand. It'll make their life infinitely easier as they won't have to do it at all!

So, extra public employees plus happy mossies - it's a shoe in! Remember, you heard it here first. Watch for the first ads in the Grauniad for 'Rectal Orifice Hygiene Operatives' - salary £32000 per annum - coming to a town hall near you!

[chuntering again]

That will never happen. Much more likely will be the idea to employ, at great public expense, an army of jobsworth Arse-Wipes (complete with cameras for photographic evidence) whose sole task will be to wipe your arse when necessary. Can't have you doing it yourself, after all, you might get hurt falling off the lavvy seat. H&S rules will preclude self wiping.

A valid point!

Another big plus will be for the mossies - they are supposed to adhere to all kinds of strict rules as to how and with which hand.

Muslim toilet ettiquette is first class entertainment! Here are the rules from Wikipedia:

    * Say before entering the toilet: In the name of Allah, O Allah! I seek refuge with You from all offensive and wicked things (Al-Bukhaaree)
    * One should enter the toilet with the left foot and leave with the right foot.
    * It is not permissible to enter the toilet whilst carrying or wearing anything bearing the name of Allah, such as the Quran, or any book with the name of Allah in it, or jewelry such as bracelets or necklaces engraved with the name of Allah.
    * One should remain silent whilst on the toilet. Talking, answering greetings or greeting others is forbidden.[2]
    * One should not face nor turn your back on Al-Qiblah whilst relieving yourself.[3]
    * One should be out of sight of people when going to the toilet
    * It is considered forbidden to relieve oneself whilst standing up, lying down or if you are completely nude.[citation needed]
    * One should avoid going to the toilet anywhere where people may take rest or gather for any purpose.
    * Do not raise clothes until you get close to the ground and do not uncover the body any more than is needed.
    * One should sit on the feet (e.g. squat) keeping thighs wide apart with the stress on the left foot.
    * Do not look to the private parts of the body nor the waste matter passed from the body.
    * Do not sit more than needed.
    * Do not spit, blow nose, look hither and thither, touch the body unnecessarily nor look towards the sky but relieve oneself with the eyes downcast in modesty. [citation needed]
    * After relieving oneself it is essential to perform Istinjaa (washing with water) of the anus and/or genitals with the left hand and water. The precise mode of performing Istinjaa has also been defined by religious leaders: "At the beginning of Istinja, it is preferable to use toilet paper three times. If Istinjaa is being done on a hot day, then the person should start from the front to the back and then from the back to the front and the third time from the front to the back. If Istinjaa is being done on a cold day, then he should begin from the back to the front. After wiping, he should wash his hand first and then he should cleanse himself with two fingers and three fingers if necessary together with ‘pouring’ water. When using the two fingers, one should keep the middle finger in front and the ring and index finger behind it. After beginning with the fingers in this position, he should bring the ring finger forward and rub with the middle finger and ring finger. Thereafter, he will wipe with the index finger, if necessary. He should continue until all the impurity and smell is removed. The left over water after Istinjaa is paak only if there is no impurity in it." (Mufti Ebrahim Desai) And further: "To wash the orifice with water, even though no filth is stuck to it after relieving oneself, is desirable. If the filth is sticking to it (less than a Dirham or equal to it) then the use of water is 'Sunnah' (optional) and in the case the filth stuck to the orifice is more than a Dirham then its washing with the water is 'Fard'. (obligatory)" Islamic Academy
    * Other than toilet paper, water and the left hand Istinjaa can be performed with earth, grit, stones and worn-out cloths provided they are all clean. It is forbidden to perform Istinyaa with bone, any edible item, dry dung, baked brick, potsherd, coal, fodder, writing paper and anything which has even a small value.
    * After this process the hands should also be washed.
    * When leaving the toilet one should also say a prayer, "Praise be to Allah who relieved me of the filth and gave me relief."[4]

If the muslims are right, I'm going to hell on several counts! 

[Sour Puss]

And there in lies the problem. Mr Wench has had enough of New Labour too but won't vote for the only possible alternative out of principle. Regardless of the fact that he might actually agree with them. 

It must be a Welsh thing... I totally agree with him.     

[Snoopy]

Trust me ~ It's a Welsh thing. Who else could have elected both Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock?

[Sour Puss]

I have a thumping headache,  I spent the whole afternoon in the Senydd, 13h00 to 14h00 tour of the building and how the thing works, was not too bad, but then RM the First minster started not answer questions Question time. He used 100 words where 10 would do, and I do not believe he answered (seriously) any one of them, they all have to be tabled 2 weeks in advance, so were almost irrelevant and the one I wanted to hear the answer too was the last question and the last 4 were not addressed.  only just home, traffic was awful, Security barriers around the building (car park out back) have to be seen to be believed.     I know what the security is like, so I did not take my phone or anything sharp or metallic (except the car keys). I had no pockets and I still set off the alarm.  After being frisked and wand waved he concluded it was something in the heels of my shoes. 

[Snoopy]

Better by far to ignore these people ~ visiting just encourages them to claim they have public backing and support. Treat them with the contempt they so richly deserve and ignore them is my suggestion.

[Bar Wench]

And there in lies the problem. Mr Wench has had enough of New Labour too but won't vote for the only possible alternative out of principle. Regardless of the fact that he might actually agree with them. 

It must be a Welsh thing... I totally agree with him.     

And as I said there in lies the problem. I understand that Thatcher did horrible, unbelievable things to Wales I truly do but at what point can we draw a line and begin again? At what point does party loyalty to the point of blindness stop and the commonsense that so many speak about take over?

Not to have a go at you personally PG, or Mr Wench for that matter, I just don't understand it. 

[Snoopy]

It goes back a lot further than Margaret Thatcher ~ she is just the latest excuse by those whose history starts in the 1970s

[Bar Wench]

Fair dos. Point still stands though. My family are conservative, always have been. Didn't stop me voting labour way back in the distant mists of time when I thought they would be better for me. I just don't get party loyalty.

[Darwins Selection]

Thatcher did horrible, unbelievable things to Wales

It was just retribution for all the horrible, unbelievable things Lloyd George did to English women.

[Barman]

My family are conservative, always have been. Didn't stop me voting labour...

It was Wenchy that voted them in! 

[Bar Wench]

My family are conservative, always have been. Didn't stop me voting labour...

It was Wenchy that voted them in! 

I doubt my one vote had much weight. In fact having said that, I intended to but at the time I was a student. It is altogether possible that I didn't get round to it. I can't really remember. Alcohol/anti-depressant haze. 

[chuntering again]

Wenchy, it's not some sort of irrational blind loyalty, but a recognition that certain parties represent certain core voters and ideologies that aren't going to change overnight. Unless they're incredibly naive, people don't go out and vote BNP based on the strength of their election manifesto, because they know their hidden agenda is the destruction of democracy and civil liberties. As we have seen with New Labour, for all the Tory-esque policies on crime and foreign affairs, they have still pursued the core Labour agenda of tax and spend and the welfare state. Likewise, with the Tories, they can't be trusted not to look after the rich and the English home counties at the expense of the rest of the UK, with all the division, despondency and crime that accompanies.

As far as I am concerned, the party who will look after my financial interests are Labour, but being ideologically libertarian I can't bring myself to vote for a party that treats its own citizens like naughty children, who need to be told what's best, put on a database and spied on.

[chuntering again]

My family are conservative, always have been. Didn't stop me voting labour...

It was Wenchy that voted them in! 

People have selective memories Barman. 50% of the country voted them in (not me mind - I voted Lib Dem in '97), because the then Tory regime was utter crap! For the first few years, dare I say they did a pretty good job. Getting into bed with chimpy after 911 seems to have been the turning point.

[Bar Wench]

Wenchy, it's not some sort of irrational blind loyalty, but a recognition that certain parties represent certain core voters and ideologies that aren't going to change overnight. Unless they're incredibly naive, people don't go out and vote BNP based on the strength of their election manifesto, because they know their hidden agenda is the destruction of democracy and civil liberties. As we have seen with New Labour, for all the Tory-esque policies on crime and foreign affairs, they have still pursued the core Labour agenda of tax and spend and the welfare state. Likewise, with the Tories, they can't be trusted not to look after the rich and the English home counties at the expense of the rest of the UK, with all the division, despondency and crime that accompanies.

As far as I am concerned, the party who will look after my financial interests are Labour, but being ideologically libertarian I can't bring myself to vote for a party that treats its own citizens like naughty children, who need to be told what's best, put on a database and spied on.

Ahh but you see that arguement makes sense. Many labour voters don't. It isn't an ideological choice because labour best represent them, clearly labour does represent you. However, when it doesn't why continue to vote for them simply because that is what you have always done?