Tories abandon grammar schools

[Barman]

I simply don?t understand this!

Education spokesman David Willetts told the BBC that middle class children dominated the grammar intake, saying "not many poor children" got in.

Link

I?m broadly for selection ? it just makes sense to me to give advantage to those who are either gifted or have made extra effort at junior school ? I was neither. Having a ?flat playing field? just doesn?t make sense ? there will always be children who simply have no interest in academia and we are wasting valuable resources on them.

More important though is why the Tories think it is a good idea to agree with Labour? Why effectively say ?you were right all along, ?academies? are a much better idea than selection and grammar schools?? Same with trident ? why agree? Do you think Cameron might be a Labour ?mole??

One good thing you could say about Labour is they proved to be a better opposition than this pathetic lot.

[Uncle Mort]

I am all for meritocracy but the question is why did so many children from poor backgrounds fail to get in to Grammar Schools?

Is it if you're poor you tend to be thick or vice versa?

I don't believe either is true so there should be a 'level playing field' in having one type of school. I just think that there should be streaming within each year to give those with the ability to work without disruption.

I do however think that 'special needs' children should have separate schools.

[Nick]

If you are poor the chances are you live in an area with mostly crap schools. And that can include crap primary schools too. If your parents have some dosh, they can move to a catchment for a better school or even send you privately.

My parents rented a house till I was 15 and worked all hours. I got to Grammar School and, like many of my class mates, it moved us out of wage slavery and renting into university, prof qualifications and good prospects.

We still have Grammar schools round here and I hope The Boy gets to one of them!

[Darwins Selection]

I got to Grammar School and, like many of my class mates, it moved us out of wage slavery and renting into university, prof qualifications and good prospects.

How you might have been if processed by a state Comprehensive is a sobering thought.

[Nick]

I would have been a plumber and far better off, but perhaps less well read

[Barman]

I am all for meritocracy but the question is why did so many children from poor backgrounds fail to get in to Grammar Schools?

Is it if you're poor you tend to be thick or vice versa?

My own experience in the early 70?s was that they were all thugs with little interest in school or the learning process?

Given the lack of discipline in schools now I can?t believe that it has got any better.

[Uncle Mort]

Why is more likely for a school to be crap because it's in a catchment area that's poor? It's back to the same question, are poor people thicker than average?

or lazier? ~ that's a possibility.

I judge you to be neither Nick and I'd bet you would have done fine in a Comprehensive if they had been around when we were 11.

[Snoopy]

Why is more likely for a school to be crap because it's in a catchment area that's poor? It's back to the same question, are poor people thicker than average?

or lazier? ~ that's a possibility.

I judge you to be neither Nick and I'd bet you would have done fine in a Comprehensive if they had been around when we were 11.

I think it has much to do with the quality of staff schools in such areas are able to attract.
Money is the same but they want the wheels to still be on their cars at going home time.

[Misunderstood]

Why is more likely for a school to be crap because it's in a catchment area that's poor? It's back to the same question, are poor people thicker than average?

or lazier? ~ that's a possibility.

I judge you to be neither Nick and I'd bet you would have done fine in a Comprehensive if they had been around when we were 11.

I think it has much to do with the quality of staff schools in such areas are able to attract.
Money is the same but they want the wheels to still be on their cars at going home time.

There is also a great deal of pressure on kids in poorer circumstances to stop messing around in school and get out there and earn something.

That kind of pressure is the hardest to resist because it's moral and money driven.   I have met a lot of extremely intelligent lorry drivers and (dare I say) barmen.   If only they had benefited from a decent education.

[ice and a slice]

If you are poor the chances are you live in an area with mostly crap schools. And that can include crap primary schools too. If your parents have some dosh, they can move to a catchment for a better school or even send you privately.

My parents rented a house till I was 15 and worked all hours. I got to Grammar School and, like many of my class mates, it moved us out of wage slavery and renting into university, prof qualifications and good prospects.

We still have Grammar schools round here and I hope The Boy gets to one of them!

I was from a poor area in Liverpool, local schools were not good and I went to a Grammar school through parent's hard work.  A fantastic opportunity and one that really made the difference.

The school system is shambolic now. 

[Barman]

Why is more likely for a school to be crap because it's in a catchment area that's poor? It's back to the same question, are poor people thicker than average?

or lazier? ~ that's a possibility.

I judge you to be neither Nick and I'd bet you would have done fine in a Comprehensive if they had been around when we were 11.

I think it has much to do with the quality of staff schools in such areas are able to attract.
Money is the same but they want the wheels to still be on their cars at going home time.

There is also a great deal of pressure on kids in poorer circumstances to stop messing around in school and get out there and earn something.

That kind of pressure is the hardest to resist because it's moral and money driven.   I have met a lot of extremely intelligent lorry drivers and (dare I say) barmen.   If only they had benefited from a decent education.

Agreed ? apart from the intelligent barmen bit ? so does it make sense to lump ?gifted? children in with those that are merely ?serving their time? until they can go out and start earning money?

[Darwins Selection]

My experience of state schools is rather limited.

However, I always thought that the Grammar school/Secondary modern system simply provided the initial 'streaming' of abilities from the Primary schools.

The 'catchment area' nonsense only reared its head in the post-Comprehensive era as parents struggled to keep their offspring away from the 'all animals are equal', stream-free schools, where the slowest set the pace.

Once you escape the dogma and teach children at a rate and depth according to their demonstrated ability, the 'Grammar or not' argument evaporates.

[Barman]

My experience of state schools is rather limited.

However, I always thought that the Grammar school/Secondary modern system simply provided the initial 'streaming' of abilities from the Primary schools.

The 'catchment area' nonsense only reared its head in the post-Comprehensive era as parents struggled to keep their offspring away from the 'all animals are equal', stream-free schools, where the slowest set the pace.

Once you escape the dogma and teach children at a rate and depth according to their demonstrated ability, the 'Grammar or not' argument evaporates.

Blimey 

Are you feeling yourself Darwin old chap? 

[Darwins Selection]

My experience of state schools is rather limited.

However, I always thought that the Grammar school/Secondary modern system simply provided the initial 'streaming' of abilities from the Primary schools.

The 'catchment area' nonsense only reared its head in the post-Comprehensive era as parents struggled to keep their offspring away from the 'all animals are equal', stream-free schools, where the slowest set the pace.

Once you escape the dogma and teach children at a rate and depth according to their demonstrated ability, the 'Grammar or not' argument evaporates.

Blimey 

Are you feeling yourself Darwin old chap? 

It has been my habit and practice to make one serious post each month.

This is the May edition.

I see you are only 9 away from the magic -100 Karma?

[Barman]

My experience of state schools is rather limited.

However, I always thought that the Grammar school/Secondary modern system simply provided the initial 'streaming' of abilities from the Primary schools.

The 'catchment area' nonsense only reared its head in the post-Comprehensive era as parents struggled to keep their offspring away from the 'all animals are equal', stream-free schools, where the slowest set the pace.

Once you escape the dogma and teach children at a rate and depth according to their demonstrated ability, the 'Grammar or not' argument evaporates.

Blimey 

Are you feeling yourself Darwin old chap? 

It has been my habit and practice to make one serious post each month.

This is the May edition.

I see you are only 9 away from the magic -100 Karma?

Ah, yes good and a fine post it was too ? I was just a little worried about you.

Yes, the magic -100 is well within my grasp now ? no lickspittle title for me.