Author Topic: Christopher Booker says it all  (Read 2976 times)

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Offline Snoopy

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Christopher Booker says it all
« on: July 20, 2008, 03:56:31 PM »
It is probably obvious to all that I tend to agree with much of what Christopher Booker says in his Sunday Telegraph column each week. From this week's offering he has this to say on the subject of "Renewable Energy". I do not disagree with those who say we need to find alternatives to buring fossil fuels (although I do not believe in "Global Warming") but these damned windmills are NOT the answer and never will be ~ if for no other reason than that the wind does not blow all the time at a speed suitable to generate electricity via wind turbines

Quote
Anyone wanting final proof that Gordon Brown lives on another planet should consider his boast to last week's EU "Mediterranean summit" that "Britain's North Sea could be the Gulf of the future for offshore wind".

To help Britain meet its EU target of generating 32 per cent of our electricity from "renewables" by 2020, Mr Brown says he wants to see 3,000 giant wind turbines built round our coasts.

The "optimum" capacity of an offshore turbine is 3 megawatts (MW), so the nominal capacity of Mr Brown's turbines would be 9,000MW. But due to the vagaries of the wind, they would produce on average only a third of this, say 3,000MW.

The Drax coal-fired power station in Yorkshire has a capacity of 3,800MW. Thus the entire output of Mr Brown's "Gulf of the future" would be less than that of a single conventional power station.

The cost of building his turbines, estimated at £2.3 million per MW, would be at least £20 billion (the £10 million cost of the solitary 3.5MW turbine recently built in Cromarty, Firth, ran out at £2.8 million per MW).

In addition, someone (who?) would have to build up to a dozen gas-fired power stations just to provide backup for when the wind is not blowing. We could get considerably more electricity from two new nuclear power stations at a fraction of the cost.

Fortunately, there is no possibility that Mr Brown's 3,000 turbines, each the size of Blackpool Tower, will get built. It is impossible that they could be erected at a rate of one every working day for 11 years, not least because the world has only one ship of the size needed to install them.

Such fantasies are only made possible by the fact that we are all forced, through our electricity bills, to pay a hidden subsidy to the turbine developers, which is 50 per cent higher even than the near-100 per cent subsidy we pay towards onshore wind energy.

But if Mr Brown is living on the Planet Krypton, he has, alas, been joined by David Cameron and our entire political class. Not one MP, it seems, dares question a policy the total insanity of which they could work out for themselves just by spending 20 minutes on the internet.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2008, 05:04:12 PM »
It is probably obvious to all that I tend to agree with much of what Christopher Booker says in his Sunday Telegraph column each week. From this week's offering he has this to say on the subject of "Renewable Energy". I do not disagree with those who say we need to find alternatives to buring fossil fuels (although I do not believe in "Global Warming") but these damned windmills are NOT the answer and never will be ~ if for no other reason than that the wind does not blow all the time at a speed suitable to generate electricity via wind turbines

Quote
Anyone wanting final proof that Gordon Brown lives on another planet should consider his boast to last week's EU "Mediterranean summit" that "Britain's North Sea could be the Gulf of the future for offshore wind".

To help Britain meet its EU target of generating 32 per cent of our electricity from "renewables" by 2020, Mr Brown says he wants to see 3,000 giant wind turbines built round our coasts.

The "optimum" capacity of an offshore turbine is 3 megawatts (MW), so the nominal capacity of Mr Brown's turbines would be 9,000MW. But due to the vagaries of the wind, they would produce on average only a third of this, say 3,000MW.

The Drax coal-fired power station in Yorkshire has a capacity of 3,800MW. Thus the entire output of Mr Brown's "Gulf of the future" would be less than that of a single conventional power station.

The cost of building his turbines, estimated at £2.3 million per MW, would be at least £20 billion (the £10 million cost of the solitary 3.5MW turbine recently built in Cromarty, Firth, ran out at £2.8 million per MW).

In addition, someone (who?) would have to build up to a dozen gas-fired power stations just to provide backup for when the wind is not blowing. We could get considerably more electricity from two new nuclear power stations at a fraction of the cost.

Fortunately, there is no possibility that Mr Brown's 3,000 turbines, each the size of Blackpool Tower, will get built. It is impossible that they could be erected at a rate of one every working day for 11 years, not least because the world has only one ship of the size needed to install them.

Such fantasies are only made possible by the fact that we are all forced, through our electricity bills, to pay a hidden subsidy to the turbine developers, which is 50 per cent higher even than the near-100 per cent subsidy we pay towards onshore wind energy.

But if Mr Brown is living on the Planet Krypton, he has, alas, been joined by David Cameron and our entire political class. Not one MP, it seems, dares question a policy the total insanity of which they could work out for themselves just by spending 20 minutes on the internet.
Excellent!  happ096

Also, these things have thousands of tonnes of concrete in them - 8% of world CO2 output is already from concrete manufacture so building all these ridiculous structures is going to significantly increase our 'carbon footprint'...

 noooo:
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2008, 05:12:47 PM »
Exactly ~ there really is no justification. The whole thing has been proved to be wrong but they simply will not admit it. Not least because some people are making shed loads of money out of it and their voices will always drown out the truth.

The biggest joke is that the turbines they are currently erecting (and those already up and "working") have a working life expectancy of 30 years and will not, in that time, produce enough electricity to pay for the cost of building them, let alone pulling them down again ..... and still the madness continues.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2008, 05:34:48 PM »
Exactly ~ there really is no justification. The whole thing has been proved to be wrong but they simply will not admit it. Not least because some people are making shed loads of money out of it and their voices will always drown out the truth.

The biggest joke is that the turbines they are currently erecting (and those already up and "working") have a working life expectancy of 30 years and will not, in that time, produce enough electricity to pay for the cost of building them, let alone pulling them down again ..... and still the madness continues.
Indeed...

Watched a programme on the telly a while ago about them demolishing the first (I think) wind turbine in the UK... took explosives to destroy the concrete and that was after draining thousands of litres of hydraulic oil and other pollutants from the thing...

Madness...  noooo:

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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2008, 10:34:59 AM »
Probably a better and more reliable source of energy than wind power. There were plans to install something like this in the River Severn but they were, if I recall correctly, cancelled because the tidal flow was too extreme. Of course we could simply dam rivers and use hydro power ~ they have been doing this in Scotland for years but such schemes are, I assume, not considered "sexy" enough for the eco warriors and they do, of course, attract other eco warriors who complain about the effects of damming on the wild life, the surrounding countryside etc. (See USA Colorado Dam schemes and in China where the bloody dolphins got every one excited)

Given current technology and assuming that Captain Kirk's Dilithium Crystals are a non starter then Nuclear is the best answer we have.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 10:37:44 AM by Snoopy »
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Offline Nick

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2008, 10:40:25 AM »
I find myself agreeing with Simon Heffer a lot too. I must be getting old!

Indeed I think he must read this pub, cos so much of what he fastens on and says was posted here first. rubschin:
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Offline barmisspah?

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 10:56:08 AM »
McGordon McBroon's recently announced "£100bn green energy package" includes plans to build 3,000 more wind turbines across Britain's countryside, despite the fact that the 2,000 we already have generate between them less electricity than a single gas-fired power plant, and far less than a nuclear station. If you include the massive planned wind-farms offshore, there will be 7,000 extra turbines, but even so their output won't come close to matching that of the coal-fired power-station at Drax in Yorkshire.
 
So, you might ask, what's the point? Why spoil thousands of acres of beautiful coast and country just for a few ethical megawatts?
 
Well, the point is much the same point as in most government initiatives - and we're not just talking about this government, either. When Thatcher privatised the railways they were transformed into not one business but a lot of inter-dependent firms, some to run the trains, some to own the trains, some to maintain the trains, one to own and maintain the track etc. This meant that businessmen - no doubt friends of Thatcher and the rest of her government - could buy shares in several different companies and reap the rewards from each one. It also meant that the consumers - British railway passengers - were providing not one profit-stream but any number, so that the new owners could get even richer.
 
In this present case the beneficiaries of McBroon's generosity will be the share-holders of the firms that own the turbines. Each turbine, up to 350 feet high, generates only a quarter of its notional output because of our fickle weather, but even so it produces about £450,000 a year for its owners. £230,000 of this comes from selling the electricity to the grid, but £218,000 comes from the government's "renewables obligation" which compels the electricity companies to pay over the odds for all wind-generated power. No prizes for guessing who pays in the end.
 
No doubt greedy land-owners will snap up the chance to get as much as £17,000 a year for 25 years for letting the wind industry put each turbine on their land - a wind-fall (pun intended) of £425,000 for doing nothing.
 
Even so, the land-owners are getting ripped-off just like the rest of us. While they'll get a mere £425,000, over the twenty-five years the wind company will have trousered £11 million of our money for producing a paltry amount of electricity which can be generated far more cheaply by conventional means and, in the case of nuclear power, with virtually no impact on the environment.
 
Still, I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. Once all the MPs who voted for this iniquitous scam have finished their political careers, they'll be rewarded with seats on the board to keep them solvent in their old age. Can't think of anything worse than packs of feral bag-lady ex-MPs pushing shopping-trolleys, begging on the streets and sleeping in railway arches. Anyway, at this rate the railway arches will be needed for the rest of us.
 

 
(based on an article by "Muckspreader" in this week's "Private Eye")

From the Grumpy Old Sod Website. Some good 'articles' on there.
 
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Offline Darwins Selection

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 11:01:25 AM »
No doubt greedy land-owners will snap up the chance to get as much as £17,000 a year for 25 years for letting the wind industry put each turbine on their land

 eeek: eeek: eeek: eeek: eeek:

You are seriously mis-informed.

It is a bit less than that.  whistle:
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Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 11:38:29 AM »
The stupid thing about this green energy crusade is that with 2 simple words Brown could easily cut down on the amount of electricity that is used if he wanted to.

We've all seen the adverts about turning lights off and turning the heating down to save the environment. Why not just say something that will appeal to the majority of people, especially in the current climate - turning heating down and not putting appliances on standby saves MONEY over the year.

Then again smaller electricity bills means less VAT being grabbed by this bunch of snake oil salesmen so its only green if it makes them cash.  cussing:
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Offline Barman

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 02:49:37 PM »
I find myself agreeing with Simon Heffer a lot too. I must be getting old!

Indeed I think he must read this pub, cos so much of what he fastens on and says was posted here first. rubschin:
rubschin:

i suggest we conclude each post with (C) Virtual Pub 2008 in that case...  whistle:

And get the lawyers onto this straight away...  ;)
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Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 03:32:40 PM »
I find myself agreeing with Simon Heffer a lot too. I must be getting old!

Indeed I think he must read this pub, cos so much of what he fastens on and says was posted here first. rubschin:
rubschin:

i suggest we conclude each post with (C) Virtual Pub 2008 in that case...  whistle:

And get the lawyers onto this straight away...  ;)

It would explain why so many 'guests' have been busily printing out threads....  rubschin:
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Offline Barman

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 04:23:40 PM »
I find myself agreeing with Simon Heffer a lot too. I must be getting old!

Indeed I think he must read this pub, cos so much of what he fastens on and says was posted here first. rubschin:
rubschin:

i suggest we conclude each post with (C) Virtual Pub 2008 in that case...  whistle:

And get the lawyers onto this straight away...  ;)
Do you mean "It would explain why so many 'guests' have been busily printing out threads.... (C) Virtual Pub 2008" ?


(C) Virtual Pub 2008

It would explain why so many 'guests' have been busily printing out threads....  rubschin:
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2008, 04:30:15 PM »
Do you mean © Virtual Pub 2008?
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Offline Barman

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Re: Christopher Booker says it all
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 04:52:28 PM »
Do you mean © Virtual Pub 2008?
Yes... I couldn't be arsed to copy it from Word... even with two screens...  noooo:
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