CHarcoal powered Rolls Royce

[Nick]

Anyone have ny further information,like?

[Pastis]

 

[Nick]

It kind of shot out of another thread,like

[Snoopy]

Well Mr Byron didn't get to travel in one apparently but there are other references to such vehicles

Prince Alfonso Hohenlohe, who has died aged 79, was the founder of the sybaritic Marbella Club and the doyen of the Costa del Sol crowd.

A scion of one of Bavaria's grandest families, Hohenlohe was a hyperactive playboy affectionately dubbed the "King of Clubs". He could reasonably claim to have invented what was once Europe's most fashionable resort.

The aftermath of the Second World War had left his branch of the family's estates in Bohemia on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, and in 1946 Prince Alfonso's father sent him to stay with his Spanish relations and to look for property in Andalucia.

He and his uncle, the Marques de Soriano, were travelling from Gibraltar to Malaga in a charcoal-powered Rolls-Royce when they stopped by the old fishing village of Marbella for a picnic. Seeing the potential of the place, sheltered by the dramatic Sierra Blanca, Soriano decided to buy the crumbling farmhouse adjacent to where they had stopped, with 24 acres of land; Hohenlohe persuaded his father to sell off his wine cellars in Malaga and to build the first of the new houses at Marbella.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1450150/Prince-Alfonso-Hohenlohe.html

[Snoopy]

I suspect that such a vehicle would be steam powered and that the charcoal would be used to heat water to create the steam. This would make some sense as charcoal is much lighter than coal or wood and gives off more intense heat ~ so where space is at a premium charcoal would be the fuel.

[Nick]

 

[Snoopy]

Can't find a specific description of a steam powered RR but this steam powered lorry was made by a company that RR took over ~ so they certainly had the technology but I suspect they never made cars that were steam driven. That said, if one were wealthy enough to own a Roller and wanted to travel to parts where petrol might be a problem to obtain then I suppose a "conversion" would have been achievable ~ you have me interested Nick ~ I shall keep digging

Steam Powered Lorry

[Snoopy]

THE STANLEY STEAMER (1897-1925)

Meanwhile, they were setting speed records. In 1906, a Stanley reached a then incredible 127.66 mph, the first machine ever to exceed 2 mi. per minute. A year later, a Stanley racer driven by Fred Marriott is said to have traveled somewhere between 150 and 197 mph (stories conflict) before hitting a bump, flying through the air, breaking into pieces, and nearly killing the driver. At that point the twins gave up racing.

F.E. and F.O. were content, but competitors were not. One competitor, playing on deliberately misguided fears, said, "You can't get people to sit over an explosion." Even though built-in safety factors prevented the boilers from exploding, the possibility of trouble had its effect. Others pointed out that steam boilers required fresh water too often, took up to 25 minutes to build up steam, and were dangerous because a pilot light, as in a gas stove, was necessary. Steamers were not permitted on ferryboats unless the driver first extinguished his burner.

The Stanleys made little effort to counteract the objections. While they were making only infrequent minor changes in their cars, the internal-combustion advocates were busily improving style and performance in theirs. Charles Kettering's perfection of the electric self-starter in 1911 was the beginning of the end for the steamers. When Henry Ford, an internal-combustion proponent from the beginning, put together the first large assembly line and produced the first inexpensive car, the bell had tolled. Steam suddenly had become old-fashioned and expensive.

Ironically, some of the earlier disadvantages of steam had already begun to be ironed out. The use of condensers, to trap escaping steam and reconvert it to water in the boiler, made constant refilling unnecessary. The "flash boiler" made it possible to use only the amount of steam needed at a given time. An electric starting device, to replace the pilot light, enabled steamers to run in less than two minutes, in summer or winter. The annoying problems associated with steam propulsion were more or less under control.

But it was too late. Companies like White and Locomobile--and over 100 others--gave up on steam as a power source. The Stanleys' company, which had been sold in 1917, was one of very few still making steamers. In 1925 they decided to give up. Ford had conquered.

What was lost? Mainly, an ingenious and clean power source. It is possible to say that today's automobiles might be running on steam if someone as brilliant as Ford had favored it. There have been attempts since F.E. and F.O.'s time to construct viable steamers. But automotive history, built on billions of dollars and millions of hours, has relegated the steamers to museums. Maybe the Stanley Steamer should be the car of the future, rather than the car of the past.

[Snoopy]

For those wishing to read more on steam powered cars

http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/cars/carhist.htm

http://www.automotivehalloffame.org/honors/index.php?cmd=view&id=45&type=inductees

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car

[Nick]

We have solved the oil crisis. Does Mc Broon know about this?

Oh sorry, the oil crisis was last week 

[Snoopy]

The Wiki link does expand on the possibilities of steam power making a return but the general opinion seems to be that it is not going to happen because of elfin-safety amongst other problems not least being the vested interests of the oil companies and car manufacturers and the decline in knowledge of steam technology.

This book
"From Stonehenge to Samarkand"  By Brian M. Fagan
Mentions that your Mr Byron was meant to be given a lift in a Charcoal Powered RR but that this failed to materialise.

That and the obit that confirms a similar vehicle was in use just after WWII are the only references I can find to charcoal powered Rolls Royce.

I have to conclude that steam was the driving force as charcoal on its own will not make anything move (unless BM sits on the BBQ by mistake). Most steam cars appear to have used Gas or Kerosene to heat the water but any source of heat would do I guess and two separate mentions of charcoal power, one in 1933 and the other in 1946, either in an area where petrol might be hard to come by or in the case of the second where petrol was in very short supply because of the war it would make some sense.

I wonder if they were one and the same vehicle? 

[Snoopy]

Apparently the Germans had charcoal-powered cars in WWII

From a report written by Flg Officer A (Bert) Harman, shot down on 25th Fed 1945
See: http://www.spitfiresocietyeastern.org.uk/interview%20archive02.html

I was then collected by two Germans who arrived in a car powered by charcoal! We stopped at another village where an RAF chap was bundled in with me. We were warned not to talk to each other and were driven across the border to a Luftwaffe base at Twente in Holland where I could see both Bf109’s and FW190’s landing and taking off. Here we were joined by about 25 other captured aircrew. The main Luftwaffe interrogation centre was at Oberursel and, although we set off there two days later travelling by horse and cart, train and on foot, we continued the same day to Wetzlar.

[Nick]

I see the Hound is strangely interested in this curious idea 

[Snoopy]

I enjoy historic research  It doesn't send me blind, grow hair on my palms or make me a bad person.

[Snoopy]

Hey!

This is good and bloody fast ~ steam power again and very up to date. Unfortunately they are heating the water using gas and not charcoal but it supports the theory that it still can be made to work and work well.

100 years ago they could get a steam powered car up to 128 mph 

Meanwhile this year http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jun/26/transport.alternativeenergy