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Author Topic: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy  (Read 14350 times)

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Offline GROWLER

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2009, 06:29:10 PM »
Well the charge is about driving over the legal limt, Nowt else!

Yea, I know that, but mentioning that you'd got a minor on board due to Mrs Nick not picking him up as mitigation might just back fire on you..... if you get me drift like. ;)

Offline Nick

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2009, 06:35:16 PM »
Let's see what the solicitor says about all that. But if that had been a prob the police would have added some other charge. They can hardly add more once I get to court, like
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2009, 06:40:27 PM »
Well the charge is about driving over the legal limt, Nowt else!

Yea, I know that, but mentioning that you'd got a minor on board due to Mrs Nick not picking him up as mitigation might just back fire on you..... if you get me drift like. ;)

Two schools of thought on that one. rubschin:
 Defence is that you had not realised, in the rush to get to your child, that you had misguidedly driven whilst over the limit. You are very sorry, you will obviously take the lesson to heart and throw yourself upon the understanding and leniency of the court.

The court will either say to themselves "poor b@st@rd ~ in his position I would have done the same" and impose a minimum sentence OR they might (tho' I personally feel it unlikely) take the opposite view and decree that the child would have been safer abandoned in the crisis whilst you sought only to protect your licence and they would then probably call for hanging to be reintroduced.
Only my opinion though.

Personally I'd say keep it simple, speak the absolute truth and don't forget to say how sorry you are several times.

Since you have presumably given a statement to the police, under caution, you cannot now start leaving bits out.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 06:42:41 PM by Snoopy »
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Offline GROWLER

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2009, 06:40:36 PM »
Let's see what the solicitor says about all that. But if that had been a prob the police would have added some other charge. They can hardly add more once I get to court, like

I'm no legal beagle, but I'm just sayin' I personally wouldn't want to plead mitigation on the grounds that you had to go and pick the boy up. The plod wouldn't charge you for that obviously as that isn't actually breaking the law.
As you say though, see what this solicitor says next week and ignore my ramblings.

Offline Nick

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2009, 06:42:08 PM »
I will pass the solicitor's views on!!
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Offline Bar Wench

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2009, 06:42:37 PM »
I'm sort of with Growler on this one, dependant on the judge you get couldn't they stick reckless endangerment of a minor on the bill too?

Offline Nick

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2009, 06:43:03 PM »
Retrospectively?
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2009, 06:49:42 PM »
No way ~ it has no bearing on the charge.

If the rozzers thought they had the slightest chance of pulling that one off they would have gone for it and claimed two clear-ups rather than the one you are worth. They'd have had a lot more to say about it had they found the Boy wandering home on his own whilst you were sat at home swigging wine.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 06:52:20 PM by Snoopy »
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2009, 06:51:48 PM »
I'm sort of with Growler on this one, dependant on the judge you get couldn't they stick reckless endangerment of a minor on the bill too?

What Judge ~ first offence, only marginally over the limit, collecting child in last minute emergency. It'll be magistrates bench only and they will be as kind as they can ~ BUT there is a mandatory minimum that they can hand down and that is a fine and a ban.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2009, 06:52:56 PM »
That's right Snoops. And my first legal advice was to plead having to fetch The Boy as a mitigating circumstance
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Offline GROWLER

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2009, 07:02:52 PM »
That's right Snoops. And my first legal advice was to plead having to fetch The Boy as a mitigating circumstance

Well I stand to be corrected then. As I say, just ignore my witterings and do what the 'experts' say. That's what you pay them a pittance for after all.



Offline Bar Wench

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2009, 07:08:30 PM »
I'm sort of with Growler on this one, dependant on the judge you get couldn't they stick reckless endangerment of a minor on the bill too?

What Judge ~ first offence, only marginally over the limit, collecting child in last minute emergency. It'll be magistrates bench only and they will be as kind as they can ~ BUT there is a mandatory minimum that they can hand down and that is a fine and a ban.

You are probably right, I am going off family experience, which on reflection was deffo more than a first offence.

Offline Snoopy

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2009, 07:36:43 PM »
Wear a nice suit and tie, get a haircut and be sure to use any title (such as Doctor or Professor) you are entitled to.
The worst part of your day will be having to sit with all the scroats appearing in court that day ~ believe me I know.
Oh and the magistrates should be addressed as Sir or Madam ~ Not "Your Honour" or "M'Lud". Don't make speeches, just keep it simple. The police get first say, follow their lead and be polite, correct, truthful and contrite.

If it is any consolation I have been done, donkey's years ago now, and got a 12 month ban.
Story was that I was moving from RAF Quarters to Private Accommodation with my then brand new wife. A mate offered the loan of his car and, fully laden with all our possessions, we set off. 500 yards from the camp gates we drove past a police car sat in a lay by. The Tax Disc (fixed in pace by sellotape) chose that moment to fall to the floor. They followed and pulled me. We retrieved the tax disc and it was current. They asked to see my licence and I produced my service licence so they went onto Insurance. I explained that the car was on loan and gave them the name of the guy who had loaned it to me. On arrival back at camp having unloaded the rozzers were in the Guardroom sipping tea. I was pulled in by the RAF police and informed that my "friend" had admitted that his insurance didn't cover me (named driver only).
The cops were thrilled to fvcking pieces.
"Failing to display a valid Tax Disc" and "Driving without Insurance".
We went to court about a month later. As required in those days I was in full dress uniform.
My defence lawyer (An RAF Officer appointed by the MOD) first tried to object that I had been apprehended and charged on RAF property by the civilian police who actually had no jurisdiction there. That went down like a lead balloon as you can imagine. The Police (who prosecuted in those days) said that since the offence had occurred off base the charges related to that and it didn't matter where I was informed of the charge. The RAF Police had, ipso facto, granted them use of the guardroom for the purpose. The magistrates felt that the defence argument was invalid but did, in fairness, offer to refer it to the next Circuit Bench for them to hear the case. The defence declined that offer. On the offence of Failing to Display the defence was that the police had said that they had seen it fall off the windscreen and that is why they had pulled me over. Therefore I had been displaying a valid disc. The police argued that having seen it fall off they were entitled to say that from that moment until it was replaced I was indeed failing to display. The Bench agreed and found me guilty: Fined £2 (This was in 1966).
The more serious charge of Driving whilst Uninsured came next. You would have thought I had killed HM herself the way the Chairman of Magistrates launched into me. My defence was "I had assumed that anyone who offered to loan me his car could reasonably be assumed, for his own protection if nothing else, to have been confident that, in the event of an accident, insurance would cover any claims. Therefore I had not thought to ask him if I could check his insurance documents before accepting his kind offer. I was therefore pleading guilty to the technical offence but asked that the court consider the circumstances in mitigation". The Chair of the Bench told me that HE would NEVER  dream of borrowing a car WITHOUT first ASSURING himself that the owner was fully INSURED. That HE would indeed have DEMANDED to see his friend's insurance documents and that my failure to so do was the HEIGHT OF IRRESPONSIBILITY. Fined £50 (almost a months pay) and banned from driving for 12 months!  eeek:
Even the cops were astonished.
As we left court I had to salute the idiot of an Officer sent to "defend" me. I then discovered from the Court Police Officer that before dealing with my case the bench had had 6 RAF lads and a dozen local "Teddy Boys" up before them charged with Riotous Behaviour, Drunk and Disorderly and Assaulting the Police.
It seems the RAF lads had gone on the piss in Wootton Bassett the night before. The local Teds had started taking the mickey and our lads had laid into them. When the rozzers turned up one of our boys had taken three of them out before they got the cuffs on him. The RAF had claimed prior rights over the uniformed boys as they were all due to fly out the next day on active service and the magistrates had been forced to let them go into RAF charge. As the next thing in uniform that the Bench saw was me it was generally reckoned that I copped for everyone's crimes. The lad who loaned me the car was dealt with in absentia after they had dealt with me (he had already left for foreign climes by the time the matter came to court). They charged him with permitting the use of a vehicle without proper insurance. Guilty, Fined £25 and banned for 6 months. His ban was up before he got back.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2009, 07:45:06 PM »
Extraordinary tale!!

I shall be wearing a suit!!

Maybe I should join up and get a uniform!
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Mr Nick is a very naughty boy
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2009, 07:53:32 PM »
The moral of my lengthy tale is two fold (i) Don't get smart arsed with the Bench (or allow your solicitor to so do) and (ii) Don't go in looking like somebody they actively hate. Imagine if you were a Wootton Bassett resident and local JP and you had 3500 airmen based five miles up the road ~ mostly determined to get pissed every night and have a fight with the locals or alternatively shag your daughter/wife/sister before going back to camp, whilst by day upwards of 100 very large aircraft (Comets, Hercules, VC10s etc) flew over your house at about 500 feet.
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