Author Topic: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)  (Read 2246 times)

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Offline Snoopy

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 01:51:32 PM »
What I don't get is why these people are trying so hard to prove it doesn't work. What's it to them?


Some think homeopathy helps them (St John's Wort for example) and if they think that where is the harm?



Let's be sensible ~ if no-one had chewed on Willow Bark and found it cured their headache we would never have had aspirin. If no-one had sipped an infusion of Foxglove we would never have had the heart medications we rely on. In their day these now proven and well established medicines were not seen as science but as witchcraft.

Taken all in all I think Simon Singh and those who support him are wrong. There may not be what he would call "scientific" proof, there may not be the peer reviewed studies he shouts about the absence of but equally there is no evidence that some of these remedies don't work. In my opinion he is simply a bigoted, loud mouth with a personal axe to grind. He wants the personal publicity.
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Offline Barman

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 03:32:46 PM »
What I don't get is why these people are trying so hard to prove it doesn't work. What's it to them?


Some think homeopathy helps them (St John's Wort for example) and if they think that where is the harm?



Let's be sensible ~ if no-one had chewed on Willow Bark and found it cured their headache we would never have had aspirin. If no-one had sipped an infusion of Foxglove we would never have had the heart medications we rely on. In their day these now proven and well established medicines were not seen as science but as witchcraft.

Taken all in all I think Simon Singh and those who support him are wrong. There may not be what he would call "scientific" proof, there may not be the peer reviewed studies he shouts about the absence of but equally there is no evidence that some of these remedies don't work. In my opinion he is simply a bigoted, loud mouth with a personal axe to grind. He wants the personal publicity.

No, you're wrong.

Homeopathy involves diluting the 'active' incregient thousands of times to the point where it ceases to exist.

Scientific 'double-blind' tests prove beyond doubt that it doesn't work. You may as well drink a glass of water from the tap.

The only possible effect of a homoeopathic 'remedy' is the placebo effect.

'Remedies' like St John's Wort, taken in stronger doses have a definable, measurable effect on the human body. You simply can't compare St John's Wort and chewing willow bark to a homoeopathic solution.
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Offline Pirate

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2010, 03:34:07 PM »
 scared:

Offline Snoopy

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2010, 05:35:31 PM »
What I don't get is why these people are trying so hard to prove it doesn't work. What's it to them?


Some think homeopathy helps them (St John's Wort for example) and if they think that where is the harm?



Let's be sensible ~ if no-one had chewed on Willow Bark and found it cured their headache we would never have had aspirin. If no-one had sipped an infusion of Foxglove we would never have had the heart medications we rely on. In their day these now proven and well established medicines were not seen as science but as witchcraft.

Taken all in all I think Simon Singh and those who support him are wrong. There may not be what he would call "scientific" proof, there may not be the peer reviewed studies he shouts about the absence of but equally there is no evidence that some of these remedies don't work. In my opinion he is simply a bigoted, loud mouth with a personal axe to grind. He wants the personal publicity.

No, you're wrong.

Homeopathy involves diluting the 'active' ingredient thousands of times to the point where it ceases to exist.

Scientific 'double-blind' tests prove beyond doubt that it doesn't work. You may as well drink a glass of water from the tap.

The only possible effect of a homeopathic 'remedy' is the placebo effect.

'Remedies' like St John's Wort, taken in stronger doses have a definable, measurable effect on the human body. You simply can't compare St John's Wort and chewing willow bark to a homeopathic solution.

We obviously hold and are entitled to hold differing opinions as to the efficacy or otherwise of various remedies and frankly I am not prepared to argue the merits or otherwise of any one "treatment " over another. I hold strong views on "Scientific" medications, that are defined as prescribed poisons drugs that claim to have peer reviewed and published results ~ but it is amazing how often these go wrong isn't it? ~ and alternative medications, be they homeopathic, the laying on of hands or whatever. I have seen both work and both fail. Both have in fact had beneficial effects on me and others have had quite the opposite. One scientifically proven "wonder" drug damn nearly killed me whereas I gained a great deal of comfort if not actual physical healing from a laying on of hands.

It is my belief that we don't actually know what works and what doesn't. There are no guarantees, just a balance of probabilities, that the Medical Profession won't kill you as they try to cure you and they get it wrong often enough to sow doubt in most minds. What we do know, because we can see the evidence with our own eyes, is that the Pharmaceutical Companies have a huge vested interest in killing off any competition to their products and that alone is reason enough for me to doubt their word.

In my own experience, apart from the "healer" I have spoken of (and how or why that helped me at the time I know not, I know only that it did), I have had  many different drugs prescribed over the years, everyone fully tested and peer reviewed. Many, in fact, made my condition worse rather than better. This alone makes me very suspicious of anyone who claims he/she can cure my ills. Partly my scepticism can be traced to the fact that I know there is no cure for what ails me. It will kill me in the end I know and most of the prescribed drugs (poisons) have side effects that make my condition worse rather than easier to live with (I recommend you read "Snake Oil and Other Preoccupations" by the late John Diamond) but I keep trying in the hope that one will work. Because there is no cure as such I am open minded and willing to give almost anything (except magic turnips) a try.

The reason I mentioned Foxgloves and Willow Bark was to demonstrate that we do really never know what is round the corner, what is scoffed at today may well be hailed as a wonder drug tomorrow. I recall a Science Master dismissing the idea of Space Flight when I was at school. Bet he felt a fool when man landed on the moon.

So if a glass of water can cure my thirst I don't have a problem extending that to a few drops of well diluted digitalis making my heart work better.

What I do question is:
(i) That anyone has the right to say I am wrong and they are right. I believe we can both be right or wrong and nobody actually knows what is about to be discovered that may prove either or both right or wrong. I am happy to accept that ~ why can't others?
(ii) What is Mr Singh's actual interest in this? A crusade to rid the world of Snake Oil Salesmen or a blast of self publicity ~ I am too old to believe he is doing it for purely altruistic reasons.
(iii) Why is there no answer to my point about swallowing more than the recommended dose proving only that it wouldn't harm those who *claimed* to have taken the remedies. Nobody has said if they felt any better after taking the "overdose" or even if they felt unwell before they took the medications. That alone surely makes the report somewhat one sided.
*They could have been swallowing Smarties or M&Ms for all we know. No reporter seems to have taken any of the "remedies" away for forensic testing.*

I am taking Prozac ~ or at least that what it says in the box but I know the girl who typed the label. Before she got the job at the pharmacy she worked in Woolworth. Laid off when they shut she got a job in the local chemists. How do I know what the fvcking pills are? I have to have faith that it will do what it says on the box. For all I know they could be worm tablets. I'll find out eventually. Either I'll have a good shit or I will feel more cheerful. Fingers crossed eh?
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Offline Darwins Selection

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Offline Pirate

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2010, 09:27:59 PM »
and this

Miss D to note as well

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2010, 09:38:25 PM »
 rubschin:

50 +  evil:

Gym it is then  lol:
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Offline Pirate

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2010, 10:41:40 PM »
A win win situation then ...work out at the gym after work...and then work out at night with Rock Hard Ray

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2010, 08:24:42 AM »
 sick2:

Rock Hard Ray doesn't do it for me I'm afraid  noooo:
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Offline Barman

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Re: The Enemy in the Camp. (Homeopathy)
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2010, 08:35:50 AM »
sick2:

Rock Hard Ray doesn't do it for me I'm afraid  noooo:

Like homoeopathic remedies then?  happy001
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