Fantastic Headlines

[Grumpmeister]

Have I fallen through the looking glass? An illegal immigrant who has already been deported 5 times gets their hands on a stolen firearm and shoots a young women in the back killing her. An open and shut case you might think but you would be wrong. Now the appeals court has overturned his conviction because that the jury wasn't given the option of acquitting him on the theory that he had only held the weapon for a moment. I'm sorry but which bloody idiot came up with that gem. The weapon had been stolen from a Bureau of Land Management ranger which would suggest that it would be in good condition and unlikely to go off unless the trigger was pulled. The guy admitted firing the gun so that narrows it down to a deliberate or negligent act which means he is guilty of either murder or negligent homicide and that's before you take into account that if he hadn't entered the country illegally AGAIN he wouldn't have been in a position to kill the woman in the first place.

Ah but of course this is San Francisco, the sanctuary city and surprise surprise the wrongful death lawsuit brought by her family against the city claiming that their sanctuary policy and San Francisco County Sheriff bore responsibility for her death was tossed out.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kate-steinle-jose-inez-garcia-zarate-california-appeals-court

[Barman]

Have I fallen through the looking glass? An illegal immigrant who has already been deported 5 times gets their hands on a stolen firearm and shoots a young women in the back killing her. An open and shut case you might think but you would be wrong. Now the appeals court has overturned his conviction because that the jury wasn't given the option of acquitting him on the theory that he had only held the weapon for a moment. I'm sorry but which bloody idiot came up with that gem. The weapon had been stolen from a Bureau of Land Management ranger which would suggest that it would be in good condition and unlikely to go off unless the trigger was pulled. The guy admitted firing the gun so that narrows it down to a deliberate or negligent act which means he is guilty of either murder or negligent homicide and that's before you take into account that if he hadn't entered the country illegally AGAIN he wouldn't have been in a position to kill the woman in the first place.

Ah but of course this is San Francisco, the sanctuary city and surprise surprise the wrongful death lawsuit brought by her family against the city claiming that their sanctuary policy and San Francisco County Sheriff bore responsibility for her death was tossed out.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kate-steinle-jose-inez-garcia-zarate-california-appeals-court

 

[Steve]

Not an open and shut case by any means

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/08/30/us/ap-us-san-francisco-pier-shooting.html?searchResultPosition=2

[Grumpmeister]

So he somehow managed to pick up the gun in just the right way that even wrapped in a tshirt he was able to apply enough trigger pressure to fire it? The average trigger pull weight for a semi automatic pistol is around 6-7lbs of pressure plus you have an initial take up before that starts to be applied and that doesn't factor in that is was supposed to be wrapped up at the time. While I'm the first to admit it's been a good few years since my shooting days his account sounds weak as hell to me.

Plus like I said, if he hadn't illegally entered the country for a sixth time he wouldn't have been in the position to fire it in the first place.

[Steve]

So he somehow managed to pick up the gun in just the right way that even wrapped in a tshirt he was able to apply enough trigger pressure to fire it? The average trigger pull weight for a semi automatic pistol is around 6-7lbs of pressure plus you have an initial take up before that starts to be applied and that doesn't factor in that is was supposed to be wrapped up at the time. While I'm the first to admit it's been a good few years since my shooting days his account sounds weak as hell to me.

Plus like I said, if he hadn't illegally entered the country for a sixth time he wouldn't have been in the position to fire it in the first place.

And that's why we have higher courts of law.  They reject the extraneous about his background and look at the issue at hand.  As sadly countless cases in the USA have shown, even a child can pick up a gun and it accidentally fires

The possibility should have been put to the jury, the original judge seems to have been biased by the man's background

It'll go to retrial, you know the probable outcome Fox News carefully didn't mention, biased reporting is what they do

[Grumpmeister]

Ok if you are concerned with biased reporting here's the CNN coverage as they would place themselves on the other side of the political spectrum. Reading that it would appear that he somehow managed to simultaneously set it off by stepping on it, aiming at a seal and unwrapping (that last one I'm more than a little sceptical of given they found GSR on his hand) it then tried to get rid of the evidence by throwing the gun into the sea. Changing your version of events the way this guy seems to have done is hardly going to work wonders for his credibility, especially as police interviews are recorded as standard   .

Surveillance video showed Garcia Zarate running away. After his arrest, investigators found gunshot residue on his right hand, prosecutor Diana Garcia told jurors.
Garcia Zarate faced a charge of second-degree murder, but jurors also were allowed to consider first-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter convictions.

Prosecutors said Garcia Zarate was playing his own "secret version of Russian roulette" and deliberately fired into an unsuspecting crowd on the pier, killing Steinle.
Defense attorney Matt Gonzalez said Garcia Zarate found the gun at the pier. He said it was wrapped in cloth, and when Garcia Zarate unwrapped it, the gun accidentally discharged.

But in a police interrogation, Garcia Zarate admitted to firing the gun, saying he was aiming at a seal.

He told police that he stepped on the gun, causing it to fire.

Prosecutors said Garcia Zarate immediately tried to cover his tracks by throwing the gun into the San Francisco Bay, then fleeing the scene.

Now as far as the extraneous part of this is concerned, it's an argument that doesn't hold water unless you are claiming that her getting shot was preordained. He chose to enter America illegally for the sixth time, if he hadn't then he would not have been in a position to fire the weapon. Yes there are countless tragic cases in America where children have picked up an unsecured firearm and is has gone off accidentally but in each case the child had pulled the trigger most likely not realising that it was a real gun. Zarate is an adult, even without any firearms training he would be old enough to understand what a gun it, what it can do and that you do not just discharge a firearm in a public place without either aiming it or making sure it was unloaded hence my saying that he could alternatively be guilty of negligent homicide as opposed to murder.

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/30/us/kate-steinle-murder-trial-verdict/index.html

[Steve]

Murder doesn't work that way.  There has to be specific causality not that 'if he hadn't been in the country' trash.  The murder charge was thrown out years back because his claim that the gun went off accidentally was frankly the most credible

This 2019 issue was a clear mistrial on a possession charge and there will be almost certainly be a retrial.  A point Fox news chose to carefully not mention

[Grumpmeister]

If it was the most credible why did he have 3 completely different versions of what happened, had they been essentially the same with some minor deviations then fair enough you could attribute that to shock.

As far as bias and credibility is concerned you may find this interesting. If you look at the overall breakdown as opposed to political affiliation Fox News, CNN and the New York Times are all pretty much seen to be as credible as each other.

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-and-least-trusted-news-outlets-in-america-cnn-fox-news-new-york-times-2019-4?r=US&IR=T

Partisan news media is a problem, one far more prevalent in America than over here. Hell if you want a good example then take a look at Rachel Maddow's deranged conspiracy tirade over the last couple of years or the New York Time's recent hypocritical argument that it's fine for their journalists to go trawling through someone's online history for anything controversial but that the public shouldn't be allowed to do the same thing with their journalists, Fox is right leaning but they have never claimed to be anything else. Years ago there was a line I heard on Babylon 5 that stuck with me 'Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side and the truth' It's why I end up going through such a wide range of American news sites from both sides of the spectrum. In this case the coverage of each of the news outlets had holes in them.

Regardless, there unarguable facts about the case are that he is a serial offender who has been repeatedly deported, he chose to be on that pier illegally and was in possession of the firearm that killed an innocent woman with a single bullet to the back. Whether or not it was a malicious act or down to gross negligence on his part by his actions he is still responsible for her death.

[Steve]

Fox news is trusted by many just like the Daily Misery is.  Doesn't make it true

Ask yourself why didn't Fox mention that casting aside a verdict because of a mistrial still allows a retrial - because it didn't suit their agenda


All in all it's a bizarre and sad case.  Very believable he just picked up the gun and it went off, very unlikely it was murder as not too many murders bounce shots off concrete to kill their victims

And loaded and cocked guns do go off accidentally just when of many sad examples

Was he in possession and therefore guilty on this last charge?  Well imho probably unless he didn't see it was a gun and picked up the shirt not realising what it was hiding.  But he still deserves the fair trial he manifestly did not receive

None of this is going to bring the victim back nor prevent him being deported yet again

[Grumpmeister]

Headlines that Apey will have a field day with #74231

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/29/volunteers-polish-giants-erection-hand-10648785/

[Barman]

Headlines that Apey will have a field day with #74231

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/29/volunteers-polish-giants-erection-hand-10648785/

 

[Steve]

Headlines that Apey will have a field day with #74231

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/29/volunteers-polish-giants-erection-hand-10648785/

 

[apc2010]

Headlines that Apey will have a field day with #74231

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/29/volunteers-polish-giants-erection-hand-10648785/

 

 

[apc2010]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7419663/Vegan-locked-feud-neighbours-wants-stop-cooking-meat.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2ydbIt5q3R0I-GyfgIxy7FF_uAqtd-vwpsH-9BQdIXq6aagK-AiuwSLgk

Steve........

[Barman]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7419663/Vegan-locked-feud-neighbours-wants-stop-cooking-meat.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2ydbIt5q3R0I-GyfgIxy7FF_uAqtd-vwpsH-9BQdIXq6aagK-AiuwSLgk

Steve........

 

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