How have times changed?

[Nick]

Ok, I have an historical perspective, but in the early 70s, when I was a teenager, you left skool/home, got a job or went to university and that was that. I know all the shite about property prices and rents and jobs and and debts and stuff. Poor sods.

BUT, we had some sense of doing it for ourselves. YOu left, branched out, ploughed your own furrow, made clankers, but you were adult. Time to go and do it.

Apart from the economics, which is major, how has the whole mindset changed?

[Barman]

Ok, I have an historical perspective, but in the early 70s, when I was a teenager, you left skool/home, got a job or went to university and that was that. I know all the shite about property prices and rents and jobs and and debts and stuff. Poor sods.

BUT, we had some sense of doing it for ourselves. YOu left, branched out, ploughed your own furrow, made clankers, but you were adult. Time to go and do it.

Apart from the economics, which is major, how has the whole mindset changed?

I think it is because (in my case at least) our parents had fuck all... they did the best for us but funds were limited... We had to work or save for what we had and really appreciated it or the efforts our parents put in to get it for us...

The next generation had much more wealth and consequently it was much, much easier for the kids... they have loadsastuff and appreciate none of it....

Just my two cents...

[Uncle Mort]

Has it really changed though?

Admitted there is a trend to stay in the nest for longer but most teenagers seem to me to be in control of their own lives.

Growler's cubs for example, getting jobs and getting on with things.

[Nick]

True. My parents hit a bad patch. I got £665 p.a in grant and lent THEM money. Then I worked in the summer hols. OK, easier to get work then. But it's an attitude of mind, surely? All the kids I see now have some sense of entitlement FFS.

[Darwins Selection]

Apart from the economics, which is major, how has the whole mindset changed?

The masses no longer go cold or hungry if they don't work.

In fact, they are warmer and better fed if they avoid work nowadays.

It is a hard thing to condemn as we no longer see snotty-nosed, hungry kids in rags on the streets of our towns and cities but I think we have gone too far the other way.

[Uncle Mort]

Maybe we do "mollycoddle" our children more. Like it seems many on here, I came from a poor, council house family (one parent in my case) and we had to get out and earn our living as soon as possible.

Today I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford to indulge my two sprogs. They have all the gadgets, foreign holidays, etc that I never could. Should I not do this?

[Nick]

Of course you can do more for them, and good for you. On his birthday I showed the Boy the local swallows nest, with the babies's beaks wide open. Delicious flies!

But you can bet yer life they are off on their tod by now!

[Uncle Mort]

I've already told my two they're being thrown out of the nest at 18.

[Barman]

Today I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford to indulge my two sprogs. They have all the gadgets, foreign holidays, etc that I never could. Should I not do this?

Do you think they appreciate it...?

I remember when I was a kid I wanted one of those new fangled cassette recorders so I could record the Top 40 on a Sunday night... I had to save really hard for it and consequently appreciated its value - I kept it for years and looked after it...

Later, when Miss Piggy got into Music she was given the latest state-of-the-art Walkman... she did of course loved it but I don't think she ever appreciated the real 'value' of it... Consequently, she got through many of them over the years that were either lost, broken or simply too old fashioned to be seen with...  
 

[Snoopy]

It's more than that. It has to do with today's kids having been brainwashed by NuLabour thinking teachers (most read the Guardian which tells me all I need to know about them) into a state of mind that they have entitlements. Nick knows what I mean by "Scaffolded Education". Basically when we did, for example, English Literature we were expected to read all the set books and plays and understand them well enough to answer questions on them. Now the little dears don't have to. They get a passage from Hamlet (for example) at the top of the examination paper and they are asked questions purely on that passage. The same happens in every subject. They are fed the answers and all they have to do is regurgitate them. What amazes me is that they don't all pass with A*.

It is interesting that the heads of various examinations boards are also the CEOs and/or owners of companies that train teachers in how to get good exam results out of their pupils. They are told the questions and teach purely to those. (See Andrew Gilligan's report in last weekends Sunday Telegraph)

Then of course you have the discipline issues in the classroom. I could write a book on that subject alone. Suffice it to say it doesn't exist.

Staffing in most state schools is now 80%+ female. Sorry but if you have coeducation then you need an even mix of male and female teaching staff. In the school attended by the THW there are 2000 pupils split roughly 50/50 in terms of gender. 120 teaching staff (of whom 100 are female) and a further "Behavioural Team" of 35 females (all with an NVQ in either Counselling or Behaviour ~ most are classroom assistants who have been sent on a course) This team does not include an army of "Special Needs Helpers" and clerical staff. In all, excluding cleaners, there are over 250 staff to deal with 2000 pupils. Over 80% of staff being female ~ so few role models for the 1000 testosterone laden boys.
At the beginning I mentioned Nulabour thinking ~ teachers have been at this since long before Blair appeared on the scene. Since the mid sixties they have been the most left leaning group in our society and now I hear them asking why they are not accorded the respect of the comunity. Well it's obvious to me and if they are so fvcking bright it should be obvious to them. A clue = It has a lot to do with the "Hi! I'm your new English Teacher and my name is Sharon." attitude. My daughter knows all about her female teachers' divorces, babies expected, where they buy their clothes, nail polish etc, which hairdresser they like, the pet name they have for their husbands/partners etc. She knows who is in a civil partnership, when their periods are due, which one has never married because she was left at the alter, which one was evicted from her rented flat last term because she is "so poorly paid she can't afford the rent". This does not lead to respect for the teachers. When I was at school all I knew was that they were called Mr Wilson or Mr Jones and I had to call them sir. Few of them knew my Christian name and even when talking about me to my parents used my surname. BUT THERE WAS RESPECT on both sides and fear on mine.
I could go on but you are bored ~ I can hear the yawns from here.

[Darwins Selection]

It's more than that. It has to do with today's kids having been brainwashed by NuLabour thinking teachers

Blah
Blah

My daughter knows all about her female teachers' divorces, babies expected, where they buy their clothes, nail polish etc, which hairdresser they like, the pet name they have for their husbands/partners etc. She knows who is in a civil partnership, when their periods are due, which one has never married because she was left at the alter, which one was evicted from her rented flat last term because she is "so poorly paid she can't afford the rent". This does not lead to respect for the teachers. When I was at school all I knew was that they were called Mr Wilson or Mr Jones and I had to call them sir. Few of them knew my Christian name and even when talking about me to my parents used my surname. BUT THERE WAS RESPECT on both sides and fear on mine.
I could go on but you are bored ~ I can hear the yawns from here.

I think you are right my old dog.

Speaking from the 'silver spoon' end of the spectrum, my children were, like me, privately educated and seem to have retained the values we are mourning here.

Their schooling was formal with quite strict discipline and respect for authority. Only daughter #1 was a problem (academically).

I fear that the well-meaning, left-leaning state educational system has widened rather than narrowed the gap between the ruling classes and the general population and worsened their opportunities.

It will be all but impossible to reverse and will ultimaltely be our downfall. 

[Nick]

Let me think carefully. We have gone all out for The Boy: tennis, swimming, drama, holidays, proper food, 11+ and now good school. My parents never owned property or even had life insurance. We do. When I/We peg it he will have an inheritance. Money is put aside for his HE or plumber's van, whichever. We are privileged to do this, but by Christ when he is 18/19 he is off to do battle and make his way. Otherwise what favours are we doing him, apart from offering a launch pad?

[Uncle Mort]

Staffing in most state schools is now 80%+ female.

Sort of true if you include nursery and primary schools. (70% March 2006) but the ratio in Seconday schools was 43.5% male, 56.5% female. (again March 2006) and is unlikely to have dropped far.

Still, I do agree with the gist of your rant and have argued similar when I have met my teacher relatives.

[Snoopy]

I can only speak of that which I see here Uncle.

Teacher training stats would bear out your figures but most males seem to manage to move out of schools and into "education" at the earliest opportunity.

[Uncle Mort]

Let me think carefully. We have gone all out for The Boy: tennis, swimming, drama, holidays, proper food, 11+ and now good school. My parents never owned property or even had life insurance. We do. When I/We peg it he will have an inheritance. Money is put aside for his HE or plumber's van, whichever. We are privileged to do this, but by Christ when he is 18/19 he is off to do battle and make his way. Otherwise what favours are we doing him, apart from offering a launch pad?

I agree.