Author Topic: Bad Form. What?  (Read 3968 times)

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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2007, 10:43:05 AM »
Allowing prisoners to extract retibution on other prisoners, whatever they have done, is wrong. 
I agree with you in part ? it doesn?t seem very civilised to let a mob sort out a prisoner who has been tried, convicted and sentenced by his peers?

?yet all too often ?justice? seems unfairly lenient and I for one am all for certain classes of criminals receiving ?additional? punishment at the hands of their colleagues.


It certainly isn't civilised but short of permanent solitary confinement (which is expensive and not in the best interest of any prisoner's mental health) what is the alternative?
It's easy to complain about the system that allows this to happen but not so easy to offer a workable solution. Other than hang the b@st@rds of course ... which would be cheaper and easier all round IMO .... but then that isn't civilised either or so we are told.
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Offline GROWLER

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2007, 10:44:27 AM »
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo. END OF! evil:

Offline Barman

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2007, 10:51:41 AM »
Allowing prisoners to extract retibution on other prisoners, whatever they have done, is wrong. 
I agree with you in part ? it doesn?t seem very civilised to let a mob sort out a prisoner who has been tried, convicted and sentenced by his peers?

?yet all too often ?justice? seems unfairly lenient and I for one am all for certain classes of criminals receiving ?additional? punishment at the hands of their colleagues.


It certainly isn't civilised but short of permanent solitary confinement (which is expensive and not in the best interest of any prisoner's mental health) what is the alternative?
It's easy to complain about the system that allows this to happen but not so easy to offer a workable solution. Other than hang the b@st@rds of course ... which would be cheaper and easier all round IMO .... but then that isn't civilised either or so we are told.
Indeed? not doing the crime in the first place being a cast-iron guarantee that you won?t be unfairly abused in this way!  happy088
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Offline D P Dance

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2007, 10:59:14 AM »
Quote from: GROWLER link=topic=898. msg14481#msg14481 date=1185101067
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo.  END OF! evil:


What about child killers like Mesdames Clarke and Cannings Growler, did they deserve what they got?
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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2007, 11:00:15 AM »
Suddenly two weeks on a different continent seems like a really good idea!
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Offline Barman

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2007, 11:02:29 AM »
Quote from: GROWLER link=topic=898. msg14481#msg14481 date=1185101067
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo.  END OF! evil:


What about child killers like Mesdames Clarke and Cannings Growler, did they deserve what they got?
Didn?t she drink herself to death?
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2007, 11:12:47 AM »
Quote from: GROWLER link=topic=898. msg14481#msg14481 date=1185101067
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo.  END OF! evil:


What about child killers like Mesdames Clarke and Cannings Growler, did they deserve what they got?

They were both cleared on appeal.
It may be your opinion that they were, as you say, child killers but the highest courts have decided otherwise.
Can we please make that clear?
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Offline D P Dance

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2007, 11:19:23 AM »
Sally Clark apparently did have a drinking problem.   She may have committed suicide.   What is certain is that she was wrongfully imprisoned on the discredited word of a Home Office expert for the murder of her children, and while in prison suffered humiliation and abuse at the hands of fellow inmates.

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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2007, 11:26:00 AM »
Sally Clark apparently did have a drinking problem.   She may have committed suicide.   What is certain is that she was wrongfully imprisoned on the discredited word of a Home Office expert for the murder of her children, and while in prison suffered humiliation and abuse at the hands of fellow inmates.



Allegedly both ladies suffered at the hands of fellow prisoners led, no doubt, by the strange moral code previously referred to, that applies in prisons ... we all accept that and would wish it different but what do you offer as a solution?
IMO there is no point in saying something is wrong unless you have a viable alternative to offer. Saying it is wrong is one thing ... replacing the system with a better one is another matter all together.
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Offline Barman

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2007, 01:05:39 PM »
Sally Clark apparently did have a drinking problem.   She may have committed suicide.   What is certain is that she was wrongfully imprisoned on the discredited word of a Home Office expert for the murder of her children, and while in prison suffered humiliation and abuse at the hands of fellow inmates.


It?s appalling that people are still wrongfully convicted in this day and age. I?m all for investing whatever resources are required to ensure that those who are sent to prison are guilty as charged?

I have little but contempt for the criminal classes though and won?t lose sleep over their conditions of incarceration.
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Offline Snoopy

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2007, 01:12:30 PM »
It?s appalling that people are still wrongfully convicted in this day and age. I?m all for investing whatever resources are required to ensure that those who are sent to prison are guilty as charged?

I have little but contempt for the criminal classes though and won?t lose sleep over their conditions of incarceration.

Aye ~ problem is the perfect system doesn't exist. Never has and probably never will.
Every era had felt it had the best idea to deal with the criminal classes and every following generation has found it "barbaric" and tried to change it but it gets no better really.
All we can do is vote for whoever offers the best alternatives but ........... Frankly I don't see anyone, even on the horizon, who has any better ideas.
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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2007, 01:37:39 PM »
Allowing prisoners to extract retibution on other prisoners, whatever they have done, is wrong. 
I agree with you in part ? it doesn?t seem very civilised to let a mob sort out a prisoner who has been tried, convicted and sentenced by his peers?

?yet all too often ?justice? seems unfairly lenient and I for one am all for certain classes of criminals receiving ?additional? punishment at the hands of their colleagues.


The 'problem' of undue leniency keeps rearing its head in high profile case but the judges are also under extreme pressure to give light sentences in line with government diktats.  The real problem is IMHO the executive involves itself in the judiciary far too much to serve proper justice.

Maybe we have reached the point where juries should have the power not only to convict but also to impose or at least recommend sentence because it is they that have decided the level of guilt and accountability.

Angela Cannings et al were not so much victims of their fellow prisoners as victims of the flawed justice that allowed them to go to prison in the first place.  Whenever a person goes to prison for something they did not do then clearly the law had proved something that had not happened.  In the light of so many successful appeals these days, I am not convinced that people are really getting a fair legal trial, rather I strongly suspect the fiddling hands of the politicians muddying the waters and - even - perverting justice.

Thirty years ago I would never have dreamed of accusing the government of such practice.  But then I was very naive in the way people handle their power.

Offline GROWLER

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2007, 08:33:48 AM »
Quote from: GROWLER link=topic=898. msg14481#msg14481 date=1185101067
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo.  END OF! evil:


What about child killers like Mesdames Clarke and Cannings Growler, did they deserve what they got?

Well in that case, we may as well say that all those convicted of a crime are deemed to be innocent until they openly admit to it. ::)


Offline Grumpmeister

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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2007, 11:33:00 AM »
Quote from: GROWLER link=topic=898. msg14481#msg14481 date=1185101067
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo.  END OF! evil:


What about child killers like Mesdames Clarke and Cannings Growler, did they deserve what they got?

Angela Cannings was cleared of all charges after it was proven that Sir Roy Meadows was making up his figures at the expense of innocent parents.
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Re: Bad Form. What?
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2007, 12:49:38 PM »
Quote from: GROWLER link=topic=898. msg14481#msg14481 date=1185101067
THIS catergory and child molestors deserve all they get imo.  END OF! evil:


What about child killers like Mesdames Clarke and Cannings Growler, did they deserve what they got?

Angela Cannings was cleared of all charges after it was proven that Sir Roy Meadows was making up his figures at the expense of innocent parents.

Justice would have been served in my view had Sir Roy Meadows been sentenced to replace her in the same jail as she was punished by her cell-mates.

The fact that he so outrageously concocted the 'evidence' against her proves beyond doubt to me that he was twice the criminal as the person he was arranged against.

But then again, was he really a despicable liar and fraud?  Or was he just a weak and vain man that had his stings pulled by forces that wanted convictions at any price.

Either way, I shudder at the prospect of facing British justice these days. After a lifetime of confidence in the integrity of the system, I am now usually horrified by it.